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EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

consilium.europa.eu

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Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#41

Post by mytailorisrich »

defrost wrote: post #6

It's a spreadng practice. Australia is introducing (or may have already passed?) a similar Act with an AU $10K limit on "unapproved" cash transactions. Over the limit you'll need approval. Of course the usual loophole for the weathy applies, 3x $3,000 face value gold bullion coins [1] is under the cash transaction limit, although at a kilo each and ~$88K per in valuae, that's almost $300K in value technically under a…

Wouldn't you need to use that $3000 coin to pay $3000, ie use it for its face value, for this loophole to 'work'? In which case it would not be very useful...

If you use it to pay $88k then the transaction is obviously $88k although you've then paid in gold, not cash.

I feel that this is a "you can't have your cake and eat it too" situation.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#42

Post by sofixa »

zmgsabst wrote: post #34
alkonaut wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t imagine a car dealer who would do anything but laugh if I bought a car north of €10k and suggested I wanted to pay in cash. I’m 100% sure they’d rather not sell the car at all. Same if I privately sold a car that expensive and the buyer showed up with cash. The hassle involved with depositing and withdrawing large amounts of cash due to KYC laws already makes this a no go. And for good reason imo.

“You can’t buy a car without permission” sounds tyrannical to me.

Then you have no idea what tyrannical means in practical means and are just gasping at straws.

It's not a matter of permission, nor is having a car a need or a right. Do you also find needing permission (a driver's license) to drive a car tyrannical?

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#43

Post by alkonaut »

zmgsabst wrote: post #34
alkonaut wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t imagine a car dealer who would do anything but laugh if I bought a car north of €10k and suggested I wanted to pay in cash. I’m 100% sure they’d rather not sell the car at all. Same if I privately sold a car that expensive and the buyer showed up with cash. The hassle involved with depositing and withdrawing large amounts of cash due to KYC laws already makes this a no go. And for good reason imo.

“You can’t buy a car without permission” sounds tyrannical to me.

Well there is no law forcing a salesperson to accept cash. So the permission here has little to do with the government.

He is no more required to accept my bag of cash as payment than he is my vintage guitar. And while the value might be there, both are a massive hassle for the seller, so they’d simply refuse most likely.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#44

Post by mr_mitm »

alkonaut wrote: post #25
shakow wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can't really think of any good legitimate use cases for large amounts of cash. Buying a car?

I can’t imagine a car dealer who would do anything but laugh if I bought a car north of €10k and suggested I wanted to pay in cash. I’m 100% sure they’d rather not sell the car at all. Same if I privately sold a car that expensive and the buyer showed up with cash. The hassle involved with depositing and withdrawing large amounts of cash due to KYC laws already makes this a no go. And for good reason imo.

Car dealers are not the only people selling cars. Anybody who owns a car may want to sell it, and using a credit card is not an option for most private sellers. I can see why the 10k limit makes sense, but it would be dishonest to claim that it won't make private car selling a bit more complicated than it was. Escrow services will now probably pop up to facilitate private car sales, but it may be worth it.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#45

Post by throw_m239339 »

flandish wrote: post #27

With inflation, “worker shortages”, and prices rising - 10,000 will soon become within reach for lots of normal people. Pushing them to NEED to use a profit driven banking system. Forcing them to be tracked. To have data mined and sold. To rely on “too big to fail” banking systems that practically schedule economic downturns every 20 years or so.

10000€ will soon be 5000€, then 2500€... make absolutely no mistake it's all about replacing cash with "Digital Euro", something the EU will have entire control on.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#46

Post by wizeman »

alkonaut wrote: post #33
flandish wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get the boot out of your mouth. If cash is legal tender, then any amount is, by default, legal. This law makes it not fully legal tender (after amount X). It is disgusting. Stop pretending the government (any) has the “average” man’s best interest. Stop pretending they care.

> Get the boot out of your mouth. If cash is legal tender, then any amount is, by default, legal. The concept of what is and isn’t “legal tender” is pretty extreme in the US compared to many other places. E.g many (most?) countries routinely takes bank notes out of circulation and make them worthless. But this isn’t so much about whether is legal tender but more about KYC laws: your €20K is no good to me as payment f…

> I like my government. I believe it operates with the best interest of the majority in mind.

Yeah, I used to believe that too.

> Are people accepting living in democracies they experience working so poorly that they believe government has its own - or worse someone else’s - best interest in mind.

Yes, unfortunately. And that's something people learn to accept because 1) most people are not aware that governments could work better, and 2) even if they know governments could work better, it's not clear to them how to achieve that, and 3) even when there are governments that already work better, it's not easy to move to another country, be it due to friends, family, lack of jobs in your expertise, language barriers, cultural barriers, different climate, strict immigration policies, etc.

And even when you can move to another country, many countries still have most of the same underlying problems with government, because even when there is genuine interest in solving the problems (which is rare), their root causes are never actually solved (or at least, not effectively).

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#47

Post by denton-scratch »

m00dy wrote: post #30

I think another important thing to mention is that there is a regulation on centralized crypto exchanges about unhosted wallets. Therefore, this regulation is completely against defi I would say.

The article is pretty vague about CASPs and unhosted wallets. Do you know the nature of the regulatory change?

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#49

Post by jaclaz »

dawkins wrote: post #16

In Spain the limit is 1K€

In Italy it is 2,000 Euro, the current governement proposal is to raise it to 5,000 and there was a lot of debates about it (according to previous measures it should have become 1,000 Euro in 2023).

Germany - I believe - has no set limit, Greece has 500 Euro.

The anti-laundering (and anti-terrorism) usefulness of limiting the amount of cash per payment has some merit, but (IMHO) it won't affect at all the illegal transactions (to evade taxes and VAT), it is news of these days of an ex-member of the EU parliament arrested in Bruxelles (in connection with presumed bribes related to the Qatar football world championship) arrested and found in possession of around 600,000 Euro cash.

https://www.politico.eu/article/belgium-police-raid-gulf-lob...

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#50

Post by BlargMcLarg »

sofixa wrote: post #39
flandish wrote: post #27

With inflation, “worker shortages”, and prices rising - 10,000 will soon become within reach for lots of normal people. Pushing them to NEED to use a profit driven banking system. Forcing them to be tracked. To have data mined and sold. To rely on “too big to fail” banking systems that practically schedule economic downturns every 20 years or so.

> Pushing them to NEED to use a profit driven banking system. Profit driven, but available literally for free for an account and transfers (depending on the bank). > To have data mined and sold. GDPR says no. > To rely on “too big to fail” banking systems that practically schedule economic downturns every 20 years or so. We're talking about the EU here, not the US. There are a ton of challenger new banks.

>GDPR says no.

GDPR isn't infallible. The EU and its individual countries have plenty of controversies.

>ton of challenger new banks.

Ton is a gross overstatement. It's a few that are truly independent from anyone else. The remainder are puppet / daughter banks.

Their existence barely influences the status quo and it certainly doesn't prevent outrage whenever banks used by over half the country's population threaten to fall.

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