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Update on JetBrains’ Statement on Ukraine

blog.jetbrains.com

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Re: Update on JetBrains’ Statement on Ukraine

#41

Post by reitanqild »

graymatters wrote: post #35
Mikeb85 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both were dictatorships and terrorist nations. Not even close to equivalent. Ukraine is a democracy of 45 million people that's never threatened another nation.

As an independent nation Ukraine committed actual genocide against other ethnic religious population within its borders at least 3 times. 2 of them during the 20th century. Ukraine never acknowledged those, neither took responsibility, nor expressed any form of regret. If you think Ukraine is morally any better than Russia than you know no history. While very much against the invasion of Russia into Ukraine, Ukrainia…

For some reason it seems Russia and Ukraine diverge sharply after 1991, and for some reason, Ukrainian authorities today enjoy strong support from all ethnic religious minorities and majorities, including amazingly both Atheists, Christians from various groups, Jews and Muslims. That is pretty impressive.

Notable exception: the FSB "branch of the Orthodox Church" that is under direct leadership of "Patriarch" Kiril, a former(???) FSB personality who still need to edit away luxury watches from his photos...

Re: Update on JetBrains’ Statement on Ukraine

#42

Post by reitanqild »

The_Colonel wrote: post #28
bennysonething wrote: post #14

I've read various reports of Russians getting a hard time in Europe (woman slapped in face on the street while speaking russian on her phone). Reminded me that Russians escaping Russia are refugees too.

This probably happens on a miniscule scale, given the big Russian diaspora in Europe. There are also practical "problems" - a westerner (even western Slavic speaker) has no chance to distinguish Ukrainian language from Russian (or even Russian speaking Ukrainian).

Practical tip:

If person says да (da) for "yes" I think they speak Russian.

I think Ukrainians use так for "yes". (Someone please confirm or correct me, but I am 90 something percent sure.) (Edit: looked it up and yes, I think I am right: https://www.ukrainianlessons.com/meanings-of-tak/. That said, Russian also have the word так, so try to infer if they say it as yes (e.g. так так так)

Of course many Ukrainians including famously Zelensky himself speak Russian natively even if more and more change to Ukrainian.

So a surer sign might be to say: "Slava Ukraini" and expect back "Heroim Slava" or something to that effect ;-)

Re: Update on JetBrains’ Statement on Ukraine

#43

Post by Mikeb85 »

janef0421 wrote: post #33
Mikeb85 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both were dictatorships and terrorist nations. Not even close to equivalent. Ukraine is a democracy of 45 million people that's never threatened another nation.

I find the claim that Ukraine is a "democracy" questionable considering the handling of the conflict in Donbas. Rather than allowing devolution of powers to the region, so that the predominantly Russian-speaking people of those regions can make local laws that reflect their interests, they have pursued a devastating 8 year long war. During the cause of this war, they have repeatedly reneged on promises made in treati…

Straight up propaganda here. You omitted the fact that Russia invaded Donbas 8 years ago.

Also it's funny that Russia's "liberation" looks like mass murder, rape, genocide, kidnapping children and bombing apartments and hospitals...

> part of an anti-slav race war.

This is straight up hilarious since Ukrainian language is far closer to other Slavic languages than to Russian. Also Russia's been selling this war to Muslim minorities as a chance to "kill Slavs".

Re: Update on JetBrains’ Statement on Ukraine

#44

Post by Mikeb85 »

graymatters wrote: post #35
Mikeb85 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both were dictatorships and terrorist nations. Not even close to equivalent. Ukraine is a democracy of 45 million people that's never threatened another nation.

As an independent nation Ukraine committed actual genocide against other ethnic religious population within its borders at least 3 times. 2 of them during the 20th century. Ukraine never acknowledged those, neither took responsibility, nor expressed any form of regret. If you think Ukraine is morally any better than Russia than you know no history. While very much against the invasion of Russia into Ukraine, Ukrainia…

Can't even give an example?

Because every non-Russian historian would say otherwise...

Exhibit A: Holodomor.

Re: Update on JetBrains’ Statement on Ukraine

#45

Post by nora-puchreiner »

bilbyx wrote: post #32
my_city wrote: post #11

Hope you move out of USA the next time that country starts a war of agression under the pretext of "fighting terrorism" or whatever excuse they come up with.

It's disappointing that JetBrains did not move out of Ukraine when the country started a war of aggression against the Russian people in the eastern breakaway regions of Donetsk and Luhansk, where thousands of Russians were killed since 2014. Why the double standard?

If we set aside moralizing, and take only the facts, then:

1. the company moved to countries with higher multipliers (i.e. with the same profit, the Dutch or German company is worth several times more than the Russian one). The current outbreak of Russophobia and panic associated with sanctions has given a unique chance to do such a relocation. They write that 800 employees agreed to move in 2022. How many would have agreed in 2021 or 2014?

2. in Russia, quite a few of the employees are local citizens. Some of them had their own homes. By getting a better offer, they could change jobs in 2 weeks. In Holland (Cyprus, Germany, ...), they need a residence permit for 1 year, tied to a specific employer. If they decide to change jobs, the new employer has to go through a months-long bureaucratic process, comparable to the process of initial migration from Russia - and this process does not guarantee a successful conclusion. And all these months they will have to pay for rented housing. And the previous (1 year, remember?) permit can expire during this process, which threatens deportation. That is, the employees have become much more dependent on the company, they will not scatter in the event of a major reorganization, cost-cutting (for the sake of morality and democracy, of course), etc.

This all looks like preparation for the sale of JetBrains. I would bet that this will happen in the coming months. The difference between 2014 and 2022 is somewhere in here, not in who attacked whom and when.

(the above is a subjective perception of their text and pure speculations, based on personal experience in a similar relocation of an IT company from Russia to EU short before 2014)

Re: Update on JetBrains’ Statement on Ukraine

#46

Post by mempko »

reitanqild wrote: post #20
Ekaros wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now if only people in USA had courage to stand up and start prosecuting those behind drone strikes and invasions of Iraq and Afganistan.

One thing can be right without the other being wrong. I personally welcome criticism against USA as long as it isn't based on hate of USA but on general ideas. Very simplified: one should be ready to be proportionally critical to everyone else. For a practical example: I do not find it useful to listen to people who criticize USA (43000 dead civilians in Afghanistan in 20 years) while being utterly silent on Soviet R…

Ok, but A million dead Iraqis. Afghanistan was childs play for the US. In fact, US sanctions against Iraq starved 500,000 children.

Both governments, Russia and US, are war machines. As far as I'm aware, not a single large US software company left the US because of those wars.

JetBrains is amazing by any standard.

Re: Update on JetBrains’ Statement on Ukraine

#48

Post by greatgib »

nora-puchreiner wrote: post #45
bilbyx wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's disappointing that JetBrains did not move out of Ukraine when the country started a war of aggression against the Russian people in the eastern breakaway regions of Donetsk and Luhansk, where thousands of Russians were killed since 2014. Why the double standard?

If we set aside moralizing, and take only the facts, then: 1. the company moved to countries with higher multipliers (i.e. with the same profit, the Dutch or German company is worth several times more than the Russian one). The current outbreak of Russophobia and panic associated with sanctions has given a unique chance to do such a relocation. They write that 800 employees agreed to move in 2022. How many would have…

I would like to say to these employees that, if they are disappointed, they can thanks their own government...

Re: Update on JetBrains’ Statement on Ukraine

#49

Post by nora-puchreiner »

greatgib wrote: post #48
nora-puchreiner wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we set aside moralizing, and take only the facts, then: 1. the company moved to countries with higher multipliers (i.e. with the same profit, the Dutch or German company is worth several times more than the Russian one). The current outbreak of Russophobia and panic associated with sanctions has given a unique chance to do such a relocation. They write that 800 employees agreed to move in 2022. How many would have…

I would like to say to these employees that, if they are disappointed, they can thanks their own government...

Those who have stock or options should not be disappointed by a 3-5x increase in the value of the company and, indeed, they have their own government to thank for the opportunity to convert the company in a way that would not have been possible otherwise: resistance from both workers and EU bureaucrats protecting the local labor market from emerging companies with 800 foreigners would have been blocking.
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