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Hertz to pay $168M to customers arrested due to Hertz’s false police reports

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Re: Hertz to pay $168M to customers arrested due to Hertz’s false police reports

#41

Post by jonny_eh »

pitaj wrote: post #36
ethanbond wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't they be compensated directly for the financial damages and then put the perpetrators in prison for all the damages that can't be moneyed-away?

How does imprisoning someone help the victims in any way? People have some really fucked up ideas of justice. Justice should focus first on making victims whole, then on rehabilitating the perpetrators to prevent victimization in the future. Imprisonment serves neither of those goals.

> How does imprisoning someone help the victims in any way? People have some really fucked up ideas of justice.

Sending people to prison for committing crimes is "fucked up"? We can quibble over which crimes deserve what sentence, but we shouldn't outright dismiss the possibility of imprisoning white collar criminals.

Re: Hertz to pay $168M to customers arrested due to Hertz’s false police reports

#42

Post by rtepopbe »

pitaj wrote: post #36
ethanbond wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't they be compensated directly for the financial damages and then put the perpetrators in prison for all the damages that can't be moneyed-away?

How does imprisoning someone help the victims in any way? People have some really fucked up ideas of justice. Justice should focus first on making victims whole, then on rehabilitating the perpetrators to prevent victimization in the future. Imprisonment serves neither of those goals.

It depends a lot on what kind of crime you're dealing with.

This isn't a matter of teaching the executives of Hertz that no, they don't need to commit crimes to survive, and how to access alternative means of survival, and all that.

They did this because they were greedy, lazy, and they knew they wouldn't suffer much for it. When you're dealing with white-collar sorts of crimes like this, deterrence is a thing.

Re: Hertz to pay $168M to customers arrested due to Hertz’s false police reports

#43

Post by KerrAvon »

nickff wrote: post #37
avgDev wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion, which may be unpopular, a CEO who earns many times more than a regular employee should ensure that there are policies in place that prevent a regular employee or the "system" ruining a customers life. They should be held individually responsible if it can be proved in court that they ignored the issues.

Should the president of the USA be held responsible for some department of the US government ruining a citizen's life (which happens all the time)? What about a state governor, should they be responsible for all the state's agencies? How about a mayor whose police force or other department acts poorly?

I can't tell if this is sarcasm, so I will answer without sarcasm:

Yes, they should be held responsible (for some value of "responsible"). It is ultimately their responsibility, which goes along with the power they wield. It's what they signed up for. And this doesn't absolve the people who directly caused the issue. You want leadership to focus on ensuring that their delegates are competent and not corrupt.

There are some shades of gray here, of course. In the US, these leadership positions don't have absolute power. It isn't necessarily their *fault*. But it is absolutely their *responsibility*.

Re: Hertz to pay $168M to customers arrested due to Hertz’s false police reports

#44

Post by jmyeet »

fallingknife wrote: post #25
jmyeet wrote: post #15

Let's compare this to China where 2 executives were sentenced to death (and others to life sentences) for their role in selling tainted formula (resulting in infant deaths) and concealing it [1] or Jack Ma (of Alibaba) who just disappeared for 3 months [2]. It should be a legal requirement that a human review and sign off on any complaint about a stolen car to police. That personal (and company) should be held crimin…

Are you really using China as an example of how this is handled well? From your own source: >Ahead of this, Ma addressed an assembly of high-profile figures with a controversial speech that criticised the Chinese financial system. He was not seen in public again until late January. In the interim, there were rumours that he might have been placed under house arrest or otherwise detained. Some even questioned if he wa…

The lesson I would like people to take from China is that government is the only thing that can rein in corporate power. This is one reason (of many) why I either laugh or just roll my eyes at libertarians.

Obviously there are aspects of China you don't want to emulate (eg the ethnic cleansing).

Re: Hertz to pay $168M to customers arrested due to Hertz’s false police reports

#45

Post by tcmart14 »

pitaj wrote: post #36
ethanbond wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't they be compensated directly for the financial damages and then put the perpetrators in prison for all the damages that can't be moneyed-away?

How does imprisoning someone help the victims in any way? People have some really fucked up ideas of justice. Justice should focus first on making victims whole, then on rehabilitating the perpetrators to prevent victimization in the future. Imprisonment serves neither of those goals.

Well in this case, it would prevent the current executives who pursued bad policy from being executives at a company pushing short sighted bad policy that has real world consequences on customers. And when they get out, maybe they learned a lesson.

Re: Hertz to pay $168M to customers arrested due to Hertz’s false police reports

#46

Post by annexrichmond »

snapcaster wrote: post #2

This is so awful it's hard to even believe. It does feel like there needs to be some threat of a company being completely dissolved in cases like this or Equifax or other problems this big that the organization has shown no interest in stopping

at what point is the punishment worse than the crime, such as if hundreds or thousands of people lose their job?

Re: Hertz to pay $168M to customers arrested due to Hertz’s false police reports

#47

Post by jmyeet »

smsm42 wrote: post #26
jmyeet wrote: post #15

Let's compare this to China where 2 executives were sentenced to death (and others to life sentences) for their role in selling tainted formula (resulting in infant deaths) and concealing it [1] or Jack Ma (of Alibaba) who just disappeared for 3 months [2]. It should be a legal requirement that a human review and sign off on any complaint about a stolen car to police. That personal (and company) should be held crimin…

Trading a set of small villains which sometimes get (insufficiently) punished for one super-powerful supervillain which never gets punished for anything doesn't look like a good deal to me. Yes, Darth Vader used to choke his underlings who misbehaved, it doesn't exactly make him a good guy.

The "set of small villains" is in fact basically every CEO and major shareholder. Corporate power is almost completely unchecked and both parties are completely owned by these corporations.

$1000 insulin only exists because the government has been bought and paid for to create a legal monopoly. This is state violence against people who need life-saving medication.

Re: Hertz to pay $168M to customers arrested due to Hertz’s false police reports

#48

Post by pitaj »

jonny_eh wrote: post #41
pitaj wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does imprisoning someone help the victims in any way? People have some really fucked up ideas of justice. Justice should focus first on making victims whole, then on rehabilitating the perpetrators to prevent victimization in the future. Imprisonment serves neither of those goals.

> How does imprisoning someone help the victims in any way? People have some really fucked up ideas of justice. Sending people to prison for committing crimes is "fucked up"? We can quibble over which crimes deserve what sentence, but we shouldn't outright dismiss the possibility of imprisoning white collar criminals.

> Sending people to prison for committing crimes is "fucked up"?

Unironically, yes. Prison is super fucked up.

Prison time barely acts as a deterrent. It doesn't reform criminals. It has high costs for taxpayers.

American prisons are entirely inhumane. Even heard of prison rape? Even violent criminals shouldn't have to endure what goes down in there. With modern technology, house arrest is far better.

Even for extremely violent criminals who are a existent danger, prison is not right. They should be in mental hospitals.

Re: Hertz to pay $168M to customers arrested due to Hertz’s false police reports

#49

Post by tcmart14 »

nickff wrote: post #37
avgDev wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion, which may be unpopular, a CEO who earns many times more than a regular employee should ensure that there are policies in place that prevent a regular employee or the "system" ruining a customers life. They should be held individually responsible if it can be proved in court that they ignored the issues.

Should the president of the USA be held responsible for some department of the US government ruining a citizen's life (which happens all the time)? What about a state governor, should they be responsible for all the state's agencies? How about a mayor whose police force or other department acts poorly?

Yes and no. Responsibility should be held accountable to the level that it should. Would I paint a broad brush and say specifically the CEO? No. Sometimes the really bad decision happens at a departmental level or maybe it is the CTO and it never got to the CEO, the accountability needs to be there. When it is because of the CEO, then yes. The same rather happens in government. Government employees loose their job or can be removed from positions. In some cases, those government employees have gone to jail.

The only reason why we haven't had a president go to jail for crimes committed, at least for one congress has pursued is that the Presidents who were for sure to be removed (Nixon), resigned and was pardoned.

Re: Hertz to pay $168M to customers arrested due to Hertz’s false police reports

#50

Post by pitaj »

tcmart14 wrote: post #45
pitaj wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does imprisoning someone help the victims in any way? People have some really fucked up ideas of justice. Justice should focus first on making victims whole, then on rehabilitating the perpetrators to prevent victimization in the future. Imprisonment serves neither of those goals.

Well in this case, it would prevent the current executives who pursued bad policy from being executives at a company pushing short sighted bad policy that has real world consequences on customers. And when they get out, maybe they learned a lesson.

So would sentencing them to probation where being a company executive is prohibited.
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