The best leaders are great individual contributors, not professional managers • Hacker News Board

Re: The best leaders are great individual contributors, not professional managers

#41

Post by antipaul » Sat, Dec 03, 2022, 2:44 PM UTC

trentnix wrote: post #26

As a manager, I want to see myself in what he said because I really enjoy writing code and engineering solutions. But honestly , I don’t think the “want to” matters all that much when it comes to management. I do think many good managers are problem solvers. They are often hands-on, in the thick of ideation and problem-solving. They have the knowledge necessary to evaluate the competence and solutions submitted by th…

I love the “manager as problem solver”.

It’s a somewhat tricky balance between “micromanagement” and problem-solving, but then problem solving is a bit of a discipline after all.

Re: The best leaders are great individual contributors, not professional managers

#42

Post by bitL » Sat, Dec 03, 2022, 2:44 PM UTC

Manager wannabes should be screened for narcissism and sociopathy and rejected if exhibiting these or similar traits. Unfortunately, recruiters are often already screening for these traits for the top management candidates and reject anyone who doesn't exhibit them.

Re: The best leaders are great individual contributors, not professional managers

#43

Post by thatwasunusual » Sat, Dec 03, 2022, 2:46 PM UTC

obblekk wrote: post #5

This is true but nuanced in my experience. Often the best managers look around, see other managers being incompetent and messing up people’s natural abilities, and want to fix the problem even if it requires them to become managers. Often the worst managers decide at a young age they’re good leaders, can lead people to do better than they would themselves, and decide they want to get into management. I make this dist…

> Often the worst managers decide at a young age they’re good leaders, can lead people to do better than they would themselves, and decide they want to get into management.

Pretty much this, but I want to refine the statement: "the worst managers are those who _want_ to manage."

Re: The best leaders are great individual contributors, not professional managers

#44

Post by newsclues » Sat, Dec 03, 2022, 2:49 PM UTC

Good management is just leadership.

Real leaders understand the burden of command and take it seriously and the stress is not sustainable for nearly anyone for the long term, so experienced leaders don’t want to do it unless it’s absolutely essential.

Re: The best leaders are great individual contributors, not professional managers

#45

Post by hsavit1 » Sat, Dec 03, 2022, 2:50 PM UTC

waltbosz wrote: post #18

dontbenebby wrote: post #12

Quoted post unavailable.

I find the personal attacks in this comment to be unbecoming of HN standards.

so following the cult like dogma of the late steve jobs is more inline with HN standards? probably yes

Re: The best leaders are great individual contributors, not professional managers

#46

Post by formerly_proven » Sat, Dec 03, 2022, 2:55 PM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #21

mdorazio wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d say the worst managers are the ones who decide that management is the best path to money, competence and effort be damned.

>management is the best path to money, competence and effort be damned Basically every German company ever. ICs be dammed.

Where management is literally the only career path in almost every company.

Re: The best leaders are great individual contributors, not professional managers

#47

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Dec 03, 2022, 2:55 PM UTC

cletus wrote: post #37

There are different flavors of not wanting to be a manager. The good kind Jobs refers to are people who see the necessity and that no one is doing it (or doing it well). They aren't the kind of people who don't understand people and fall into the trap of simply controlling and micro-managing people. Let me give you an example of the bad kind. Google's SWE ladder goes all the say from L3 (new grad) to L9 (ignoring exc…

[deleted]

Re: The best leaders are great individual contributors, not professional managers

#48

Post by sph » Sat, Dec 03, 2022, 2:56 PM UTC

Reminds me of my favourite quote by Kurt von Hammerstein-Equord:

"I distinguish four types [of officers]. There are clever, hardworking, stupid, and lazy officers. Usually two characteristics are combined. Some are clever and hardworking; their place is the General Staff. The next ones are stupid and lazy; they make up 90 percent of every army and are suited to routine duties. Anyone who is both clever and lazy is qualified for the highest leadership duties, because he possesses the mental clarity and strength of nerve necessary for difficult decisions. One must beware of anyone who is both stupid and hardworking; he must not be entrusted with any responsibility because he will always only cause damage."

Re: The best leaders are great individual contributors, not professional managers

#49

Post by thih9 » Sat, Dec 03, 2022, 2:59 PM UTC

formerly_proven wrote: post #46

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>management is the best path to money, competence and effort be damned Basically every German company ever. ICs be dammed.

Where management is literally the only career path in almost every company.

And you get promoted until what you do changes so much that you’re not good at it anymore, so you can’t justify another promotion and you remain a middle manager.

Re: The best leaders are great individual contributors, not professional managers

#50

Post by pwdisswordfish9 » Sat, Dec 03, 2022, 3:05 PM UTC

monsieurbanana wrote: post #24

diego_moita wrote: post #20

I wonder what kind of people are these Steve Jobs cultists... Most of the "wisdom" of all "Steve Jobs said..." is just subjective interpretation of vague and ambiguous statements. Truth, the guy had a lot of successes. But if you look at them most were just accidental and he only recognized them as success when they hit him in the face. * Apple didn't "invent" the Mac, all of it's technologies were copied straight ou…

I'm predisposed to dislike Steve Jobs (I'm predisposed to dislike anyone who exploits other people tbh, so virtually all high-profile CEO). But there's already 5 pretty big successes in your list. At which point it stops being statically improbable he isn't exceptionally talented by some kind of metric?

Can you read? The point being made is that none of them were his.