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The $205.4B Gulag

gouldasks.substack.com

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Re: The $205.4B Gulag

#41

Post by andsoitis »

photochemsyn wrote: post #37

I have a fairly unusual history relative to my general cohort in that between high school and college, I spent about two years working in electronics manufacturing and assembly factories (age 17 to 19) in California. I did work like injection-molding cases for devices, cutting cable and crimping connectors for computer cables, and finally, a bit of work in a laser-welding facility for precision components in Silicon…

> Now if you're wondering why there's an epidemic of homelessness and poverty in California, and it's become the state with the largest income gap in the USA, well, that's why.

Because companies moved low skill labor elsewhere because it is cheaper there?

Re: The $205.4B Gulag

#42

Post by the_only_law »

thefz wrote: post #8

> Due to the fatal flaw I mentioned above, I’ve always thought that the factories that build these tools/toys must be fascinating places that take materials, humans and magic in and push amazement out. Giant robotic arms moving around in a never-ending sync, working their magic, in harmony, producing our toys. Yeah, "magic".

Eh, it’s substack. Not expecting much.

Re: The $205.4B Gulag

#43

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

cpsns wrote: post #23
reallydontask wrote: post #18

I guess for me the takeaway is: Buy fewer electronics

That's is extremely unpopular with the general public, much less here on HN. Ask people to reduce their consumption and they have a tendency to lash out.

Why is that? I've noticed that nearly all of these new toys don't improve my quality of life. Do people buy things as a dopamine hit and form of escapism? It certainly seems that way.

Re: The $205.4B Gulag

#44

Post by colechristensen »

BurningFrog wrote: post #34
andsoitis wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who decides to make it in China? Who demands that companies be highly highly profitable?

Profitable companies outcompete less competitive ones. No one decided that, it's just a fact.

What is decided are the rules of the game, the outcome is then somewhat obvious.

Re: The $205.4B Gulag

#45

Post by AlbertCory »

photochemsyn wrote: post #37

I have a fairly unusual history relative to my general cohort in that between high school and college, I spent about two years working in electronics manufacturing and assembly factories (age 17 to 19) in California. I did work like injection-molding cases for devices, cutting cable and crimping connectors for computer cables, and finally, a bit of work in a laser-welding facility for precision components in Silicon…

>> ""PCB [printed circuit board] manufacturing and assembly is a very low-margin business and is largely located in Asia. It comes down to access to low-cost labor, a vast ecosystem of factory infrastructure, and flexibility. It is hard to replicate the ecosystem in the US today," said Kundojjala. "

I have a section in The Big Bucks about "PCB manufacture": it used to be [1970's] outsourced on a piecework basis to people in my neighborhood [SV] who did it in their garages. Some of the very old timers around here still remember it. It was before my time.

The electronics companies would deliver the boards & the parts, and the neighbors would stuff them. One of those companies was Apple, I believe.

If you were really good they might have you solder.

Re: The $205.4B Gulag

#46

Post by gameshot911 »

I absolutely believe we should strive to improve the lives of all living beings in the world. But purely to provide an alternative perspective and spark some lively conversation, I want to explore a different point of view:

No one is forcing these workers in China to take these jobs. The workers willingly choose to take them because they are an improvement over their status quo. The jobs pay more, and offer better benefits for them and their families, than they may be able to obtain elsewhere.

That's one of the great benefits of globalization. A factory job manufacturing cell phones may offer substandard wages in the US, but it's a big step forward for workers in a developing country. In this way both countries benefit.

Obviously everyone wants to continue to improve their lot, and a Chinese worker may BOTH realize that their factory job is better than they can attain elsewhere, AND they may suffer under poor conditions at that job. But they can always quit, and odds are someone else will immediately jump on that same job. That says a lot about the comparative quality of the opportunity. In the end these jobs, as flawed as they are, are still living millions out of even worse conditions every day across the globe.

Re: The $205.4B Gulag

#47

Post by epistasis »

andsoitis wrote: post #39
epistasis wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They go without food, and double up and triple up in rooms that they rent. And though homelessness is more prevalent among undergrad students, it also happens to a lot of grad student workers too.

Can you point to statistics of homelessness and food scarcity amongst university students in California? I would be surprised if it is more than a rounding error, but open to being shocked.

Figure 1 here from the state:

https://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/4014

Homelessness is far higher than a rounding error, it's 5% of UC students, 10% of CSU students, and 20% of community college students.

I live in a town with a UC campus, and come across packs of students living in their cars. They do everything they can to have minimal impact and hide from view. It makes me terribly sad, and shocked every time I see it.

Re: The $205.4B Gulag

#48

Post by AlbertCory »

keewee7 wrote: post #3
sayinbu wrote: post #2

I switched to iphone from android very recently and I do feel bad about it.

Almost all consumer electronics are made at these Chinese manufacturers. Only the high-end chips are from Taiwan, South Korea, or Arizona. I'm software engineer at a Danish company that also manufactures a lot of industrial electronics. Our insight is that China is still the cheapest place to manufacture PCBs but it is surprisingly more efficient to setup pick-and-place robots here in Denmark to place the components…

> If we can figure out how to efficiently print the PCBs in Denmark/EU

see my other post. It used to be part of a garage-shop economy here in Silicon Valley.

Re: The $205.4B Gulag

#49

Post by epistasis »

rayiner wrote: post #24
epistasis wrote: post #15

I'd like to remind people about the terrible working conditions in extremely wealthy places such as California too. Right now, University of California grad students and researchers, who produce a massive proportion of science on the West coast, are on strike. In most locations, it's nearly impossible to pay rent on their stipends. Grad students may be in training, but they are also the source of nearly all the novel…

Comparing factory workers anywhere to grad students in California is remarkable. Grad students endure the conditions voluntarily. They would have tons of alternative options in the private sector if they chose to do that.

Perhaps grad student workers should just struggle in silence, due to the difference in their circumstances with other workers. Or perhaps all workers should band together in solidarity due to the commonality of their circumstances.

Re: The $205.4B Gulag

#50

Post by hansvm »

andsoitis wrote: post #39
epistasis wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They go without food, and double up and triple up in rooms that they rent. And though homelessness is more prevalent among undergrad students, it also happens to a lot of grad student workers too.

Can you point to statistics of homelessness and food scarcity amongst university students in California? I would be surprised if it is more than a rounding error, but open to being shocked.

5%-20% of college students were homeless at the time of this study [0] (closer to 5-10 for universities).

[0] https://oshi-la.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/cts-state-of-...

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