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German privacy watchdogs conclude that Microsoft 365 is incompatible with GDPR

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Re: German privacy watchdogs conclude that Microsoft 365 is incompatible with GDPR

#41

This will have absolutely zero impact. Everybody knows you must use Microsoft products and if those don't comply with regulations, the regulations will have to change...

There's already some high level people lobbying to update interpretation of GDPR in a way that it would require proof of actual harm to user for any fines to be issued - essentially completely neutering the regulation.

Re: German privacy watchdogs conclude that Microsoft 365 is incompatible with GDPR

#42
post #21
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GDPR fines can be massive, look at the list here: https://www.enforcementtracker.com/ (sort by the fine amount)

So 3 enforcements in Germany in all of 2022, and the highest fine in Germany was 35mil. 35mil is how much for Microsoft? The yearly Office 365 fees of one of their DAX customers?

It's nothing, but once one of their customers gets a 5 millioj euro fine for using Office365 for sensitive data, the impact will be significantly higher. Microsoft can take the hit but most of its customers can't.

Microsoft's incompatibility with the GDPR puts some of its customers at risk. A fine or two and businesses might stop paying for those lucrative cloud subscriptions.

Re: German privacy watchdogs conclude that Microsoft 365 is incompatible with GDPR

#43

These people keep acting like they're so clever for figuring this out, yet in reality all they're doing is giving death sentences to European companies by making them unable to use industry standard products.

Not being able to use Office is a death sentence?

Re: German privacy watchdogs conclude that Microsoft 365 is incompatible with GDPR

#44

These people keep acting like they're so clever for figuring this out, yet in reality all they're doing is giving death sentences to European companies by making them unable to use industry standard products.

Or it will force the European market to innovate instead of directly sending cash to US Megacorps.

Re: German privacy watchdogs conclude that Microsoft 365 is incompatible with GDPR

#45
post #40

These people keep acting like they're so clever for figuring this out, yet in reality all they're doing is giving death sentences to European companies by making them unable to use industry standard products.

People think this will hurt MS, but in reality it will also make doing business in Europe more expensive. Almost all big companies use M365. It will keep these already slow organizations busy trying to find and implement alternatives. Instead they could focus on growing their businesses. Good luck Europe.

Well Im european and I can tell you from the inside, it's not the same mindset at all. We dont want to grow companies, in fact we barely give a fuck at all. It s hard to understand for capitalists, and I disliked this mindset so much I moved to Hong Kong, but that s what the people vote for: they d rather have no growth and no Microsoft 365 than put their data there.

People in most of Europe are truly convinced finance, money and growth are mirages made to enslave them in eternal pursuit of an unreachable state, and instead prefer to cool it down. It's not a pragmatic strategy because it ignores we re not alone.

Re: German privacy watchdogs conclude that Microsoft 365 is incompatible with GDPR

#46
post #40

These people keep acting like they're so clever for figuring this out, yet in reality all they're doing is giving death sentences to European companies by making them unable to use industry standard products.

People think this will hurt MS, but in reality it will also make doing business in Europe more expensive. Almost all big companies use M365. It will keep these already slow organizations busy trying to find and implement alternatives. Instead they could focus on growing their businesses. Good luck Europe.

I don't disagree that finding alternatives will be expensive, but I think this is the same harmful thinking we have in the US where people disagree with regulation that adds necessary protection at the cost of business. So we have a "regulation is bad" mindset. Most prominently I wish we could convince companies here to believe handling/retaining unnecessary data is like handling something radioactive. Until we convince these companies it's a danger to themself, we won't see change. Sure, in the near future US companies will have an advantage continuing to use Microsoft 365, but harm to our privacy and beyond that is demonstrable. I haven't used a computer like its my own private space to think in decades because of what I know is collected with telemetry. My creativity and passion for computing is harmed by what Microsoft engineers its products to do, and glean from my daily use. If Microsoft wants access to a large customer base in Europe, they should make changes to their products that respect consumer privacy laws in that area. I hope we benefit tangentially.

Something-something auto makers conform to California emission laws, same argument.

Re: German privacy watchdogs conclude that Microsoft 365 is incompatible with GDPR

#47
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GDPR fines can be massive, look at the list here: https://www.enforcementtracker.com/ (sort by the fine amount)

Yes. But there is too few of them, and usually in situations where other companies can still wait and see. "We aren't Facebook", "We are too small to be noticed" and "but we had them sign a waiver" are still prevalent in most companies. For things to change, there would really need to be something like: - data protection fines the whole of the customer list of Amazon/Google/MS cloud - data protection fines a high-pro…

> - a court forces a public institution to cease using Office365 (no fines possible there)

AFAIK, in Norway, most fines have been directed at public institutions.

Re: German privacy watchdogs conclude that Microsoft 365 is incompatible with GDPR

#49
post #45
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People think this will hurt MS, but in reality it will also make doing business in Europe more expensive. Almost all big companies use M365. It will keep these already slow organizations busy trying to find and implement alternatives. Instead they could focus on growing their businesses. Good luck Europe.

Well Im european and I can tell you from the inside, it's not the same mindset at all. We dont want to grow companies, in fact we barely give a fuck at all. It s hard to understand for capitalists, and I disliked this mindset so much I moved to Hong Kong, but that s what the people vote for: they d rather have no growth and no Microsoft 365 than put their data there. People in most of Europe are truly convinced finan…

I’m also European. Thanks for the insight.

I don’t agree with you. So think about that next time you say “most Europeans”.

Re: German privacy watchdogs conclude that Microsoft 365 is incompatible with GDPR

#50
My personal favorite outcome of this would be a joint public and corporate funded leap in open source development. This would do much for the budget, privacy and probably also security of businesses and private users. A good example where this principle is already in use is the Matrix protocol.
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