Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Porting 58k lines of D and C++ to Jai

yet-another-blog.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 264 posts

Re: Porting 58k lines of D and C++ to Jai

#41

Post by _aavaa_ »

StevePerkins wrote: post #20
dymk wrote: post #8

I don’t understand how this language is planning on ever seeing adoption when it’s been restricted from open use since it’s inception. Seems like vaporware.

Over the past decade, I watched HN's and Reddit's hype waves cycle through server-side JavaScript, Golang, Haskell, and now Rust. With plenty of secondary favorites in the mix like Julia, Nim, Zig, etc. A lot of these things do find some modest niche to survive in. But none really take over the world as originally forecast by the hype wave. Ultimately, you either enjoy tinkering with programming languages for persona…

While I agree with most of your points, I am not sure what this has to do with the parent you're replying to.

The one part I disagree with is:

> A lot of these things do find some modest niche to survive in. But none really take over the world as originally forecast by the hype wave.

One of Blow's critique of C++ is specifically that it's trying to be the everything language. Jai's goal is to be for video game development, and that's it. Not for embedded systems, not kernels, not drivers, not high performance computing, not operating systems. Just video games.

Re: Porting 58k lines of D and C++ to Jai

#42

Post by [deleted] »

3a2d29 wrote: post #39
stephc_int13 wrote: post #17

I'd love to see more about Jai. I don't understand why they are not working in the open, this is a tool, not a game, input for a large community is extremely valuable. But as brilliant as Jon Blow is, he is at least equally as stubborn. Fast compilation and nice, easy to read syntax with good default is exactly what I am looking for. I can understand the hype about metaprogramming, and its potential usefulness, but I…

It’s hard to find any material on Jai. It seems to be a “better C”. Isn’t that what D / Zig try to do? What’s the advantage?

[deleted]

Re: Porting 58k lines of D and C++ to Jai

#43

Post by renox »

Cyberdog wrote: post #19
dymk wrote: post #8

I don’t understand how this language is planning on ever seeing adoption when it’s been restricted from open use since it’s inception. Seems like vaporware.

Maybe it's a marketing thing. Creating a perception of exclusivity. Making Jai the Maserati and Gucci of programming languages. That's ridiculous but seeing the odd level of interest in this language that almost nobody can use means maybe it's working.

I agree that it's marketing but not for the 'exclusivity' reason, for the 'first impression' reason. You'll still hear quite often that DMD is proprietary or that there is no free Ada compiler even though this hasn't been true for many years..

Re: Porting 58k lines of D and C++ to Jai

#44

Post by doodpants »

dymk wrote: post #8

I don’t understand how this language is planning on ever seeing adoption when it’s been restricted from open use since it’s inception. Seems like vaporware.

I think Jonathan Blow's main goal is to make his dream game programming language so that he can be happier while developing all of his future games. Widespread adoption by others is only a secondary concern. He also doesn't want to push it out to the general public until he feels it's ready, and wants to take the time to get it right first.

Re: Porting 58k lines of D and C++ to Jai

#46

Post by gizmo »

dymk wrote: post #8

I don’t understand how this language is planning on ever seeing adoption when it’s been restricted from open use since it’s inception. Seems like vaporware.

The other niche languages are either buggy, slow, or both. Jai won't be. Ultimately it's about taste and quality. If the language gets enough right then people will switch to it, because people are desperate for a c++ alternative. Open sourcing or early access won't help here. Somebody just has to do the hard work of writing the compiler internals, and it will be done when it's done. And really, I wouldn't bet against somebody who has delivered on big projects twice before.

Re: Porting 58k lines of D and C++ to Jai

#47

Post by stephc_int13 »

3a2d29 wrote: post #39
stephc_int13 wrote: post #17

I'd love to see more about Jai. I don't understand why they are not working in the open, this is a tool, not a game, input for a large community is extremely valuable. But as brilliant as Jon Blow is, he is at least equally as stubborn. Fast compilation and nice, easy to read syntax with good default is exactly what I am looking for. I can understand the hype about metaprogramming, and its potential usefulness, but I…

It’s hard to find any material on Jai. It seems to be a “better C”. Isn’t that what D / Zig try to do? What’s the advantage?

I think that Jai / Zig / Odin all started around the same time.

D is closer to C++ than C, in my opinion.

I suspect that Jai was an inspiration for Zig and Odin.

Many developers in gamedev circles are still using C or orthodox C++ (C++ without most of the bullshit) but are frustrated by many features and gaps.

Short compilation time is one of the big goals, as it is crucial for fast iteration.

The goal is simply to have a powerful low-level/system language that is enjoyable to use. Or at least more enjoyable than C++. (the de-facto standard)

Re: Porting 58k lines of D and C++ to Jai

#48

Post by 4v0v »

_aavaa_ wrote: post #41
StevePerkins wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over the past decade, I watched HN's and Reddit's hype waves cycle through server-side JavaScript, Golang, Haskell, and now Rust. With plenty of secondary favorites in the mix like Julia, Nim, Zig, etc. A lot of these things do find some modest niche to survive in. But none really take over the world as originally forecast by the hype wave. Ultimately, you either enjoy tinkering with programming languages for persona…

While I agree with most of your points, I am not sure what this has to do with the parent you're replying to. The one part I disagree with is: > A lot of these things do find some modest niche to survive in. But none really take over the world as originally forecast by the hype wave. One of Blow's critique of C++ is specifically that it's trying to be the everything language. Jai's goal is to be for video game develo…

It's false, he never said that it was only for games.

Re: Porting 58k lines of D and C++ to Jai

#49

Post by stephc_int13 »

hbn wrote: post #24
stephc_int13 wrote: post #17

I'd love to see more about Jai. I don't understand why they are not working in the open, this is a tool, not a game, input for a large community is extremely valuable. But as brilliant as Jon Blow is, he is at least equally as stubborn. Fast compilation and nice, easy to read syntax with good default is exactly what I am looking for. I can understand the hype about metaprogramming, and its potential usefulness, but I…

I don't see why a language can't be one guy's passion project. Even if he releases it and it turns out he's the only person that likes it, so what? It's not like he's had millions in VC or government investment dumped into it or something. He's got some ideas and he's implementing them. I'm interested to see how it turns out. Golang has had success and was primarily made in private by 3 guys and hasn't strayed too fa…

Yeah, of course he can do whatever he wants.

The think is that quite a few people have been convinced by his talks and want to use Jai for real projects.

Re: Porting 58k lines of D and C++ to Jai

#50

Post by didip »

This person might as well said that he is not planning to finish his game.

Screwing around with tooling and languages seems to be a common pitfall to not finishing a game.

Why not just use the best ecosystem like Unreal/Unity and get the game out of the door fast?

Post reply on HN