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Man of the Hole

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Re: Man of the Hole

#41

Post by friend_and_foe »

rajeshp1986 wrote: post #38

Breaks my hear to see the indigenous tribes and cultures dying. We will regret Deforestation & forced-modernization of these forest based tribes. In Africa & India, some of the evangelical proselytizing has destroyed very old knowledge of the land. There was one tribe in Andaman & Nicobar island which had some indigenous knowledge about weather patterns, storms and earthquakes. It was found that the members of the tr…

As much as it makes me sad to hear about it too, I think it's wishful thinking to say we will regret it. The entire history of civilization is the history of genocide and forced assimilation. Civilization is basically an ever expanding cultural grey goo meat grinder. The Romans did it to Europe and central Asia, the first caliphate did it to (ultimately) all of Arabia, the various east Asian civilizations did it to natives all across southeast Asia, Formosa, the Japanese islands. Every one of us that belongs to a civilization came to be here because it was done to our ancestors. Nobody really regrets any of it, save for some more recent examples and those too are usually just lip service. Give it a few more generations and nobody will even talk about caring anymore.

Re: Man of the Hole

#42

Post by aussiesnack »

defrost wrote: post #31
aussiesnack wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the film ref. Like most Australians, my knowledge of indigenous folk is patchy at best - a few books and local interactions here and there. I have actually helped hunt/collect & eat goanna (not bad) and turtle eggs (yuck), which probably puts me a bit outside of the Australian norm. But in truth the indigenous world is an entirely 'foreign' culture to most of us. As is European culture to many indigenous f…

We're in a time when only recently > 50% of the human population became urbanised. Even in the UK and the EU you're barely a generation away from "what do you hunt" being a fair and reasonable question - hunting boar in a European forest in the 1940s was not altogether uncommon, catching birds, fish, rabbits, et al in the countryside to supplement scarce food was absolutely a wartime pursuit in the UK. As a Kimberley…

I've only been up to that part of the world once. Seems like an enviable place to have grown up.

Re: Man of the Hole

#43

Post by silisili »

For anyone who hasn't seen it, Aura is one of the most powerful documentaries I've ever seen. I mention it because it's also about Brazilian natives, but two that were taken in.

Their bond to each other, fear of the new world, confusion, and inability to communicate are heartbreaking. The way they try to smile at the camera alone is haunting.

Available free on YouTube: https://youtu.be/kGuxaY8HPjs

Re: Man of the Hole

#44

Post by prox »

nine_k wrote: post #33
MonkeyMalarky wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oral tradition?

I was mostly intetested in the kinds of oral traditions, and maybe other traditions to catch knowledge without writing, say, using sculpted / cut figures, etc.

For about half of its lifetime at least, the vedas were meticulously passed down orally with a priest present at its ritual to catch for any errors in word or deed.

A teacher I had of Jewish descent said something similar about his tradition.

It was a lot more common to memorize texts and cultural highlights. In the even recent past most people could recite complete poems and stories by heart.

Re: Man of the Hole

#45

Post by prox »

shadowgovt wrote: post #11
solarpunk wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose the state of Brazil is something that could be considered a settler colonial project and with it's continued existence this sort of thing remains doomed to happen.

IIUC, the mining operation was extremely illegal (independent of the genocide, which is obviously also illegal). It happened on Brazil's watch so it's Brazil's responsibility, but I'm ill-convinced convinced that in its absence this wouldn't continue to happen (in its absence, there's no FINRA, no organization protecting these tribes... And there are still people willing to kill for mining profit).

An organization made to help is https://amazonfrontlines.org , they do a lot work in this regard.

Re: Man of the Hole

#46

Post by ghayes »

friend_and_foe wrote: post #41
rajeshp1986 wrote: post #38

Breaks my hear to see the indigenous tribes and cultures dying. We will regret Deforestation & forced-modernization of these forest based tribes. In Africa & India, some of the evangelical proselytizing has destroyed very old knowledge of the land. There was one tribe in Andaman & Nicobar island which had some indigenous knowledge about weather patterns, storms and earthquakes. It was found that the members of the tr…

As much as it makes me sad to hear about it too, I think it's wishful thinking to say we will regret it. The entire history of civilization is the history of genocide and forced assimilation. Civilization is basically an ever expanding cultural grey goo meat grinder. The Romans did it to Europe and central Asia, the first caliphate did it to (ultimately) all of Arabia, the various east Asian civilizations did it to n…

You can regret the extinction of species, while still appreciating the beauty of the modern biosphere.

Re: Man of the Hole

#47

Post by ben_w »

edgyquant wrote: post #17
bergenty wrote: post #5

It’s a real loss when we lose tribes like this because we also lose 50,000 years of accumulated knowledge.

It’s passed on through us recording their traditions

We don't always have the opportunity to even do that.

And even when we do have the opportunity, there are cases where we can't, because the language is untranslatable, for example the North Sentinel islanders: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentinelese_language

Re: Man of the Hole

#48

Post by herbst »

edgyquant wrote: post #17
bergenty wrote: post #5

It’s a real loss when we lose tribes like this because we also lose 50,000 years of accumulated knowledge.

It’s passed on through us recording their traditions

If you look into traditional medicine in that area you realize that plenty of the plants they use and used never actually got a proper scientific research on them. It's basically getting lost in front of our eyes.

Re: Man of the Hole

#49

Post by bergenty »

prox wrote: post #44
nine_k wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was mostly intetested in the kinds of oral traditions, and maybe other traditions to catch knowledge without writing, say, using sculpted / cut figures, etc.

For about half of its lifetime at least, the vedas were meticulously passed down orally with a priest present at its ritual to catch for any errors in word or deed. A teacher I had of Jewish descent said something similar about his tradition. It was a lot more common to memorize texts and cultural highlights. In the even recent past most people could recite complete poems and stories by heart.

Even today many Muslims memorize the entire Koran.

Re: Man of the Hole

#50

Post by scotty79 »

klabb3 wrote: post #23
nine_k wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that knowledge accumulated? I suppose these tribes lack writing?

Probably differs a lot, but the Navajo have a massively developed story-telling tradition to pass on wisdom across generations. Iirc these are symbolic and has moral or philosophical contents, similar perhaps to fables and religious miracle-stories. Encoding information in narratives is highly effective for memorization, and I believe deliberate so. Literal interpretations can be fun, but a deeper semantic interpreta…

Even if remembered perfectly and consisting only of valuable information, it's amount of knowlege that fits in a single brain. We are centuries past the point when such amount was significant.
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