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Is 40 hours a week too much?

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Re: Is 40 hours a week too much?

#41

Post by kneebonian »

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #5

Too much for whom? For businesses, definitely not too much; if you're awake you could be working. For workers? We worked less when we were hunter-gatherers, and even peasants up to the industrial revolution worked seasonally and thus had an average of 20 hours a week. Now we work 40 hours a week for 44-48 weeks a year. And for what? To pay too much for health care, be stressed out constantly, sit in traffic commuting…

You know I hear this repeated about how people who did substance farming supposedly did less but that just doesn't seem to square with my experiences. Two examples I'll cite are the first is the experience recorded by my great great grandfather, he grew up on a farm in central Utah and when he was 14 years old his dad told him to take the sheep and go up into the mountains and don't come back until it snowed. I guess you could count it different but I think we'd be hard pressed to say that wasn't full time 24/7 work for 3 straight months, then when he got home he would have to work the harvest, repair the fences, etc.

Another more modern example is the Amish, I don't know if you've had a lot of experience with the Amish but they know how to work, they start before sunup and push through to sundown, taking a short break for lunch and then back at it for hours on end, I definitely wouldn't say they average 20 hours a week over the year.

I just see this claim repeated over and over and it feels like it doesn't make sense and is pushed more because those repeating it like it than any substantial basis in reality.

Re: Is 40 hours a week too much?

#42

Post by hulitu »

mkl95 wrote: post #7

Many companies think their employees are being productive for 40 hours a week, while it's actually somewhere between 10 and 20, with the rest being a big void. If you are actually doing 40 hours a week you are productive as hell.

I heard Elon does 120 hours a week. /s

I haven't seen anyone doing 40 hours a week. At least not more than a week.

Re: Is 40 hours a week too much?

#43

Post by TylerE »

therealdrag0 wrote: post #14
mkl95 wrote: post #7

Many companies think their employees are being productive for 40 hours a week, while it's actually somewhere between 10 and 20, with the rest being a big void. If you are actually doing 40 hours a week you are productive as hell.

There are different types of voids. 1. Non work social media. 2. Work socializing (water cooler). 3. External support/collaboration/reviews. 4. Day dreaming not about work. 5. Thinking about work while not “producing” maybe not even at computer. I can work 40 hours where it feels like 10-20 hours are actually working on my “planned” work, but the other time is on #3 and #5 which “feels” like a void but is actually cr…

5 is a big one.!I’ve solved more problems playing guitar or in the shower than I ever have banging my head against the keyboard

Re: Is 40 hours a week too much?

#44

Post by interstice »

mkl95 wrote: post #7

Many companies think their employees are being productive for 40 hours a week, while it's actually somewhere between 10 and 20, with the rest being a big void. If you are actually doing 40 hours a week you are productive as hell.

Freelance web developer background currently developer / business owner - my achievable baseline is 30 hours of billed out time and around 10 hours of admin/emails/meetings etc. Keeping the emails from eating the rest is an ongoing battle though.

Re: Is 40 hours a week too much?

#45

Post by CallMeJim »

mkl95 wrote: post #7

Many companies think their employees are being productive for 40 hours a week, while it's actually somewhere between 10 and 20, with the rest being a big void. If you are actually doing 40 hours a week you are productive as hell.

On the flip side; no one is productive 100% of the time.

If people worked 20 hours per week, the actual productive time would likely be between 5 and 10 hours per week.

Re: Is 40 hours a week too much?

#46

Post by dilyevsky »

nkrisc wrote: post #37
nkozyra wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you are actually doing 40 hours a week you are productive as hell. I disagree. But I think what we qualify as "work" is more rigid than it needs to be. Is spending 5 minutes looking at HN every few hours work? Most people would say no, but it absolutely helps developers to know what's going on or new or what other devs outside their company are saying. If I spend 20 minutes reading about a language/app that my c…

Ok but can you write an OKR for reading HN?

Best not forget to groom that ticket as well

Re: Is 40 hours a week too much?

#47

Post by shagie »

mkl95 wrote: post #7

Many companies think their employees are being productive for 40 hours a week, while it's actually somewhere between 10 and 20, with the rest being a big void. If you are actually doing 40 hours a week you are productive as hell.

While the "I'm sitting down and writing things that are going to be productive" is likely in the 10-20h/week range, there is still a lot of

  * Meetings
  * Mentoring
  * Answering random questions
  * Continuing education (Hey, Spring 6.0 was just released, what's in that?)
  * Support (and being available for support)
Those can easily fill in a lot of the 'void'.

I can point to 5h/week that are standing 'meetings' where it is often 'me helping out someone with a git or jira or GitHub issue' and it is that time that is designated each day (to try to avoid having the 'answering random questions' become too disruptive).

I am certainly not '40h/w, butt in seat, head down coding' and even though I may be only "productive" 10-20h/week, I'm certainly busy with work stuff to fill up the rest of my day. It's never "do an hour or two of work in the morning and day dream for the remaining six hours."

Re: Is 40 hours a week too much?

#48

Post by yodsanklai »

hulitu wrote: post #42
mkl95 wrote: post #7

Many companies think their employees are being productive for 40 hours a week, while it's actually somewhere between 10 and 20, with the rest being a big void. If you are actually doing 40 hours a week you are productive as hell.

I heard Elon does 120 hours a week. /s I haven't seen anyone doing 40 hours a week. At least not more than a week.

I've seen tons of people doing it for extended periods of time. I can think of - ambitious people working in competitive environments (research, corporations, students) - doctors/dentists/nurses, lot of them work long hours and their job require focus - small business owners

Re: Is 40 hours a week too much?

#50

Post by cwoolfe »

"Finally, when the 40-hour workweek was established, two-income households were rare. Only 15.2% of married women were employed in 1940. But as of 2012, 60% of households had dual incomes. When both members of a couple work, it leaves less time for children, chores, errands, food preparation, and everything else that must occur outside of working hours."

40 hour workweek is fine for most people, but I think HR ought to be more flexible in working hours and salary employees choose, based on their season of life. Because we are dual-income with 3 young children, I work 32 hrs instead of 40; but it's an odd arrangement I had to ask for. I see families in a simliar situation struggling, and I think it ought to be more of the norm to offer this without a company raising questions about productivity/loyalty/laziness/benefits etc.

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