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Silicon Valley layoffs aren’t a cost-cutting measure. They’re a culture reset

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Re: Silicon Valley layoffs aren’t a cost-cutting measure. They’re a culture reset

#41
post #23

> And as petty a thing as, “We’re going to give you smaller to-go boxes so you can’t take the steak we’re giving you and go feed your family with it.” That's what she thinks is petty? I wonder if she feels the same about replacing snack bars and drink fridges with free vending machines to slow down the workers who fill their backpacks full of Odwalla, Monster, and expensive snacks every night. These benefits were wor…

I can't remember how long ago it was.. before Google and Facebook started pushing crazy benefits Microsoft was kind of famous for it. MS's level of it back in the day was much lower than today, but still generous for the time.

At some point they had to stop as they had caught employees emptying the free drink fridges and taking them off campus and reselling them.

So they had to stop offering that stuff. Though I'm sure they had to re-add it later.

Re: Silicon Valley layoffs aren’t a cost-cutting measure. They’re a culture reset

#42
post #39

The Facebook/Google crazy level of perks with 3 meals provided very day, dry cleaning, massages, etc.. ? Free alcohol in the office? That stuff can go, and people will have to deal with. Some of the other stuff like untracked/unlimited PTO (It's never really unlimited) and free coffee and snacks is nice to have. I'm in my 40s. I started internships in 1996. All this free food and alcohol, etc.. didn't exist till arou…

>The Facebook/Google crazy level of perks with 3 meals provided very day, dry cleaning, massages, etc

I worked for Google at the campus on Crittenden for a short stint in 2015. We had a few folks keep the kegerator stocked with their home brews and a wall of liquor one could sample as needed. I kept the kitchenette stocked with hot sauce on my own accord b/c I wanted to have some handy.

I'm also in my (late) 40s and all of these little perks were very new to me. I quickly grew accustomed to them, but to be honest I didn't miss a single one of them after I left. I don't know that they really moved the needle for me at all.

Except for the shuttle. I *loved* having the shuttle. It greatly simplified the ability to not have a car for the first time in my adult life and it was awesome.

Re: Silicon Valley layoffs aren’t a cost-cutting measure. They’re a culture reset

#43
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> childish perks like free food Ahh yes, food, such a childish thing.

Conveniently dropped the ‘free’ I see. Whenever I interviewed with companies and they mentioned free meals or fridges full of sodas as a perk, that was a red flag. Companies like IBM and Microsoft had on-site cafeterias and coffee shops usually with subsidized pricing and it never came up in in interviews.

Having worked at a place with subsidized cafeteria onsite, oh boy was the food shitty. The old school businesses I worked at had this really strange view of cafeterias, like they expected their employees to hear the whistle blow and everyone take their tin lunchbox to the lunch room.

Re: Silicon Valley layoffs aren’t a cost-cutting measure. They’re a culture reset

#44
Some of the criticism doesn't make sense: Providing food, amenities, even accommodation has been a method with which private and state organizations around the world used to cut their costs and better the life standards of their members since the dawn of the modern economy after the industrial revolution.

Especially for organizations that have thousands of employees in one location, providing a cafeteria can be much cheaper for both the employees and the organization than thousands of employees going out to eat in private establishments at lunch time. The organization providing housing to employees to work around the bloated real estate sector can also be beneficial to the employeees and the organization. Similarly, Apple mulling its own health services is a good idea - they can reduce their costs and increase quality of life.

Its economies of scale after all. If you have tens of thousands of organization members in a location, it becomes an economy of scale that can reduce every member's and organization's costs directly.

If you do not provide such services to your members using economies of scale inside your organization and instead leave it to the free market by giving monetary compensation instead, you can bet that the free market will do everything in its power to suck all of that monetary compensation out of the hands of the employees by providing the minimum service in return to maximize profit.

Re: Silicon Valley layoffs aren’t a cost-cutting measure. They’re a culture reset

#45
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free lunches are childish to you? Paying for food as a captive audience is very mature? I guess I'm glad to be childish :)

Well you could actually very much look at it as childish. The "free" food is obviously paid for by the company with money that could otherwise go to salaries. If everyone got higher salaries and food was charged for, then you could make choices about spending money in the cafeteria or saving money bringing food from home. Adults make choices. By making the decision for you that you'll take the lower salary but get un…

> The "free" food is obviously paid for by the company with money that could otherwise go to salaries.

If that food money is transferred to salaries, the 'free market' will do everything in its power to suck all of that money by giving the minimum in return in order to maximize profit. Because that's what it does. It will cost both the organization and the employees more.

Re: Silicon Valley layoffs aren’t a cost-cutting measure. They’re a culture reset

#46
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you could actually very much look at it as childish. The "free" food is obviously paid for by the company with money that could otherwise go to salaries. If everyone got higher salaries and food was charged for, then you could make choices about spending money in the cafeteria or saving money bringing food from home. Adults make choices. By making the decision for you that you'll take the lower salary but get un…

Why are we assuming it would go to salaries? Do budget surpluses normally result in bonuses for rank-and-file employees? Aren't you still capable of eating something that isn't free? This line of reasoning makes any workplace perk into an act of infantilisation: 401(k) matching? You mean you let them remove that much agency from your investment planning? Healthcare? I would prefer to be a big girl and buy my healthca…

> Why are we assuming it would go to salaries?

Because companies generally budget for total compensation and then divide between salary and perks, and because employees generally compare offers using total compensation rather than just salary.

> This line of reasoning makes any workplace perk into an act of infantilisation

Of course it can, but it exists on a spectrum. Things like 401(k) matching and healthcare and toilet paper aren't infantilizing because they're cheaper or have tax benefits when provided through the company, and most people use them. So they're simply a win-win. On the other hand, if a company provides a lower salary but free housing, that can be extremely infantilizing since a big part of adult autonomy is balancing a lot of factors in choosing where to live.

Things like free meals, rec rooms, laundry, and haircuts are generally more on the infantilizing side of things, since a lot of employees would just prefer cash instead. Lunches provided at-cost can make a lot of sense though when restaurants are far away though -- it's not infantilizing because you still pay for lunch, but it's win-win because the company isn't making a profit off of you like restaurants do.

Re: Silicon Valley layoffs aren’t a cost-cutting measure. They’re a culture reset

#47
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The workers were getting to uppity, expecting things like actual work-life balance. Which of these large companies would you say have a poor work-life balance on average? Google, Facebook, Adobe, Microsoft, and others have reputations as rest-and-vest retirement homes. I've heard Netflix can be challenging, along with some parts of Apple, but nothing like startups, investment banking, or big law. Twitter before Elo…

Amazon and FB have never been "rest and vest". Honestly google in most teams isn't like that either.

I agree about Amazon, but I've definitely heard FB thrown about as rest-and-vest regularly since IPO, and that's the impression I've gotten from developers I've met working there since.

I have heard the AI and other non-FB/IG parts of Meta are pretty grindy-but-worth-it though.

Re: Silicon Valley layoffs aren’t a cost-cutting measure. They’re a culture reset

#48

Some of the criticism doesn't make sense: Providing food, amenities, even accommodation has been a method with which private and state organizations around the world used to cut their costs and better the life standards of their members since the dawn of the modern economy after the industrial revolution. Especially for organizations that have thousands of employees in one location, providing a cafeteria can be much…

This used to be handled by having a non-free cafeteria.

The cafeteria will still be cheaper for employees than going out to restaurants, and it will be cheaper than the company picking up the tab for everyone.

It used to be common to make a lunch and bring it to work too.

This recent stuff that tech workers are entitled to a free meal at work or to go spend an hour+ to go to a restaurant for lunch every day is a very new thing.

Re: Silicon Valley layoffs aren’t a cost-cutting measure. They’re a culture reset

#49
post #8

As long as tech companies remain fantastically profitable the culture will not change. I see this as just a sour grapes piece from a journalist who has to cover tech from outside the bubble.

East coast money vs west coast money; always has been.

The tech industry greatly predates Silicon Valley so saying this is East Coast vs West coast doesn't make any sense.

Re: Silicon Valley layoffs aren’t a cost-cutting measure. They’re a culture reset

#50

The Silicon Valley culture was aimed at attracting younger talent away from established companies, with childish perks like free food and video games, and a less rigid work structure. But it was never going be sustainable. At the core, the ‘promise’ that these new tech companies alluded to one day had to actually appear. And the slow creep of government regulation was always going to catch up too. I always assumed mo…

The most challenging thing I found at a large tech company was building and maintaining relationships. Grabbing food with coworkers on campus is a cheat code for this. Similarly if I visited a new office, I was guaranteed to be able to do the same thing with partner teams.
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