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Ftx.com Has Probably Collapsed

forum.effectivealtruism.org

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Re: Ftx.com Has Probably Collapsed

#41

Post by hailwren »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #23

Does anyone know how Coinbase avoided this fate? I really thought it would be them to fall, but they proved everyone wrong. There’s some key difference between Coinbase and an exchange like FTX. Is it because FTX had a token, and then leveraged themselves using their own token? Binance has a token too. Are they in similar danger? It would be an interesting contrast to know why one exchange is safe vs another. Here’s…

Coinbase avoided this fate by being a us regulated company. FTX.us is still above water. It’s the Bahamas based company that was able to cook the books and is now defunct.

As for Binance, they have the SAFU (https://academy.binance.com/en/glossary/secure-asset-fund-fo...) which they just topped up to $1B at current market prices (today). You can verify the balances on chain, but there aren’t any statements about outstanding obligations, and there are no guarantees that those funds haven’t been earmarked for other things.

Re: Ftx.com Has Probably Collapsed

#43

Post by jshen »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #37
arkis22 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been waiting for this for years.

You’ve been waiting years for people to suffer? Lookup “ schadenfreude”.

Many of us have been warning people for years that this would be the outcome. We were ridiculed for it.

Re: Ftx.com Has Probably Collapsed

#44

Post by wruza »

daveguy wrote: post #24
outside1234 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drugs, Money Laundering, Money Hiding, etc. etc. There is utility in a black currency for all sorts of illegal things

But bitcoin is the absolute worst black currency. Every single transaction has a permanent public record.

You seem to imply something here, what it is?

Re: Ftx.com Has Probably Collapsed

#45

Post by JonahSussman »

woodruffw wrote: post #36

This is maybe tangential of me to say, but since this post is coming from an EA forum: I think the cozy relationship between EA and FTX has done immense damage to the public image and standing of the EA movement. I've never been an EA person (much less a utilitarian) but I can appreciate the meat and potatoes of applied ethics, especially when those ethics are applied consistently . The infusion of cryptocurrency fun…

I'm a bit behind on the times, but I'm failing to see how the philosophy of effective altruism and cryptocurrency are related. Do you know how the two got intertwined?

Re: Ftx.com Has Probably Collapsed

#47

Post by sanxiyn »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #23

Does anyone know how Coinbase avoided this fate? I really thought it would be them to fall, but they proved everyone wrong. There’s some key difference between Coinbase and an exchange like FTX. Is it because FTX had a token, and then leveraged themselves using their own token? Binance has a token too. Are they in similar danger? It would be an interesting contrast to know why one exchange is safe vs another. Here’s…

CZ says the primary lesson is "never use a token you created as collateral", and Binance has never used BNB for collateral, and (by implication) FTX did use FTT for collateral.

https://twitter.com/cz_binance/status/1590103159506341888

As far as I can tell, this seems to be the correct analysis. The technical term for why you should avoid this is "wrong way risk".

Re: Ftx.com Has Probably Collapsed

#48

Post by loeg »

woodruffw wrote: post #36

This is maybe tangential of me to say, but since this post is coming from an EA forum: I think the cozy relationship between EA and FTX has done immense damage to the public image and standing of the EA movement. I've never been an EA person (much less a utilitarian) but I can appreciate the meat and potatoes of applied ethics, especially when those ethics are applied consistently . The infusion of cryptocurrency fun…

> The infusion of cryptocurrency funny money into that world has completely perverted both aspects: much of EA now seems focused on speculative concerns (AGI) rather than real ones (world hunger or civic integrity)

My impression is the (excessive) AGI focus predated FTX (which was founded in 2019), rather than being caused by cryptocurrency money. For example, OpenAI was founded in 2015.

Re: Ftx.com Has Probably Collapsed

#49

Post by hanniabu »

hailwren wrote: post #41
sillysaurusx wrote: post #23

Does anyone know how Coinbase avoided this fate? I really thought it would be them to fall, but they proved everyone wrong. There’s some key difference between Coinbase and an exchange like FTX. Is it because FTX had a token, and then leveraged themselves using their own token? Binance has a token too. Are they in similar danger? It would be an interesting contrast to know why one exchange is safe vs another. Here’s…

Coinbase avoided this fate by being a us regulated company. FTX.us is still above water. It’s the Bahamas based company that was able to cook the books and is now defunct. As for Binance, they have the SAFU ( https://academy.binance.com/en/glossary/secure-asset-fund-fo... ) which they just topped up to $1B at current market prices (today). You can verify the balances on chain, but there aren’t any statements about ou…

> FTX.us is still above water

FTX.us has been under SEC investigation for security fraud for months, so still too early to make this call

Re: Ftx.com Has Probably Collapsed

#50

Post by loeg »

JonahSussman wrote: post #45
woodruffw wrote: post #36

This is maybe tangential of me to say, but since this post is coming from an EA forum: I think the cozy relationship between EA and FTX has done immense damage to the public image and standing of the EA movement. I've never been an EA person (much less a utilitarian) but I can appreciate the meat and potatoes of applied ethics, especially when those ethics are applied consistently . The infusion of cryptocurrency fun…

I'm a bit behind on the times, but I'm failing to see how the philosophy of effective altruism and cryptocurrency are related. Do you know how the two got intertwined?

SBF participates or participated in the EA movement.
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