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Some thoughts on social networking and Usenet (2018)

jfm.carcosa.net

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Re: Some thoughts on social networking and Usenet (2018)

#41
post #31

Google in many ways helped sink USENET by acquiring Dejanews, then slowly replacing the USENET functionality with Google News. Dejanews, in hindsight could have been a pretty reasonable proto-social network on its own. Not that I'm bitter...

It's not an accident they sunk it :(

Nope. :(

To add some context to those not from that era. Dejanews was the only practical way to search USENET at all, so it was effectively a USENET search engine with a crude web client. It was pretty darned crude, but was also much easier than the many NNTP clients. Most people I knew used both pretty effectively as USENET grew.

It was simple and functional, only to be slowly eroded by Google News.

Have no idea where Google News is now. But Dejanews was in many ways a Reddit for that era.

Re: Some thoughts on social networking and Usenet (2018)

#42
> My opinion of conversation views is that they became widespread because they are relatively easy to implement, and because the threaded interfaces in early 2000s graphical email clients were terrible.

No, it seems more likely that it's because they're easier to display on mobile, so mobile first design leads to using them everywhere.

Re: Some thoughts on social networking and Usenet (2018)

#43
> Do you see how different this was from the infinite scroll of current social media web sites and apps? The idea was that your newsfeed would be updated periodically. Maybe hourly, maybe only once a day. And the goal of your newsreader was to let you be caught up and finished before the next time it updated.

How is that desirable? Why would you want to finish reading something that might already be obsolete?

Re: Some thoughts on social networking and Usenet (2018)

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just recently started looking back at one of the groups I frequently read years ago and found that there was a small community still using it. Even recognized a few of them. The trolls and spammers were gone.

Some are still going.. https://groups.google.com/u/1/g/sci.electronics.design https://groups.google.com/u/1/g/comp.arch https://groups.google.com/u/1/g/rec.arts.sf.written https://groups.google.com/u/1/g/rec.radio.amateur.misc https://groups.google.com/u/1/g/comp.compilers

Crikey sci.electronics.design is a mess now (was active over 20 years ago on it).

Re: Some thoughts on social networking and Usenet (2018)

#45
> Killfiles and Scorefiles

That's one of the most important thing most people ignore: they means we can have our PERSONAL aggregator instead of using someone else algorithms and censorship. Sure at usenet time (or back at Xerox time where these concept was implemented for the first time in known history) the level of scoring and self-censoring technique was limited but nowadays it's a CENTRAL point. Usenet is a decentralized network no one own, no one can really censor at a whole and aggregators who are needed for anything high volumes are personal things, posts can be archived locally so they do not disappear and so on.

Coupled and integrated (like Gnus offer) with RSS feeds mails and in the case of Gnus also HN (nnhackernews backend) or Reddit (nnreddit) we can have a CONSISTENT and LOCAL UIs for ALL our public information/communication infra in a robust yet simple manner. That's the classic nuclear war resilient internet vs the modern centralized and censored web.

Oh BTW usenet today it's almost abandoned, but some have rediscovered it for mostly piracy as an alternative to bittorrent. It's relevant because it means that while normally binary groups in a modern world are a bit odd they perform well enough for such big file sharing usage.

Or, long story short: evolving these tools we can have a modern classic desktop who happen to be a human PERSONAL exobrain, work desk, tool, with the human at the center. With the modern web and relevant WebVMs we get instead modern dumb terminals of modern mainframes.

Do you prefer owning nothing "and being happy" like the infamous WEF/2030 video OR you prefer own your small slice of the world peer between peers?

Re: Some thoughts on social networking and Usenet (2018)

#46

> Do you see how different this was from the infinite scroll of current social media web sites and apps? The idea was that your newsfeed would be updated periodically. Maybe hourly, maybe only once a day. And the goal of your newsreader was to let you be caught up and finished before the next time it updated. How is that desirable? Why would you want to finish reading something that might already be obsolete?

The idea is that you control it. You're presented with the place you stopped following the thread, and you can certainly skip to the new hotness if you like, but if you want the intervening context it's right there.

That "maybe obsolete" state is -your- reading state.

Re: Some thoughts on social networking and Usenet (2018)

#47
Some of the most interesting and intellectually interesting conversations I have every had online were on USENET back in the 80's. I literally made friends all over the world in fields spanning areas from model aircraft to electronics, software development and aerospace. Met a bunch of them. Visited each others' homes. Etc.

Today? Geez. No comment. Every meaningful relationship I have online is from people I knew and met in real life, some of them a decade or more ago.

Re: Some thoughts on social networking and Usenet (2018)

#49
How was poster identity handled in Usenet/NNTP? From what I remember, it was just a "From:" header and spoofing was easy. Or was there more to it? (Maybe because most posters wrote to their local server which require auth, you could see which server the message originated from and decide if the sender's address matched the server address...? It's been so long.)

If not, then Twitter, Mastodon, etc. all seem to have a somewhat strong notion of identity.

Re: Some thoughts on social networking and Usenet (2018)

#50

Part of the problem with Usenet is that it isn't "free" like Twitter and Facebook are. (They're free because they host ads, and there are all sorts of problems with that, of course, but you don't pay a monthly subscription to them). Way back, it used to be you got an NNTP server bundled with your ISP which was ok, because you were the only customer who knew what that was and how to use it, so you weren't creating a l…

There are free servers, they don't hold binary groups but they work fine.
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