Swarm – Low cost, global satellite connectivity for IoT • Hacker News Board

Re: Swarm – Low cost, global satellite connectivity for IoT

#41

Post by wildzzz » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 8:14 PM UTC

moralestapia wrote: post #29

reaperducer wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Provides 750 data packets per device per month (up to 192 Bytes per packet) 144,000 bytes. Almost the capacity as a Commodore 1541 disk drive. 40 years ago it would have been unfathomable that a regular schmoe could transmit a floppy disk via satellite for just $5.

Sure, but 40 years have passed since then and 144K peanuts for any real world application. A quick example, you have a sensor that sends a single metric every minute. Suppose that you can pack that info (sensor id, metric type and data) in 32 bytes. You're looking at about 1.2MB/month of data (8 times your 144K), which will come to about $40/month. Quite expensive for a single data point, but I can imagine several us…

Up to the minute sensor data for something so remote that it needs a satellite uplink is either going to be for something incredibly critical or totally overkill and a waste of money. With Swarm, you could be waiting up to 2 hours between passes that last anywhere between 10 and 50 minutes so it's not like you'll have your data instantly for large portions of the day.

Re: Swarm – Low cost, global satellite connectivity for IoT

#42

Post by Taniwha » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 8:14 PM UTC

moralestapia wrote: post #29

reaperducer wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Provides 750 data packets per device per month (up to 192 Bytes per packet) 144,000 bytes. Almost the capacity as a Commodore 1541 disk drive. 40 years ago it would have been unfathomable that a regular schmoe could transmit a floppy disk via satellite for just $5.

Sure, but 40 years have passed since then and 144K peanuts for any real world application. A quick example, you have a sensor that sends a single metric every minute. Suppose that you can pack that info (sensor id, metric type and data) in 32 bytes. You're looking at about 1.2MB/month of data (8 times your 144K), which will come to about $40/month. Quite expensive for a single data point, but I can imagine several us…

Yeah but once a minute is overkill for lots of things - remote river flood warning every 15 minutes, river water quality once an hour, temp or rain fall once and hour

Re: Swarm – Low cost, global satellite connectivity for IoT

#43

Post by pnemonic » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 8:14 PM UTC

>SpaceX

Ignored completely. Musk was cool until he opened his mouth all the way.

Re: Swarm – Low cost, global satellite connectivity for IoT

#44

Post by skykooler » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 8:15 PM UTC

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #14

arriu wrote: post #12

Minimum order of 25, so roughly $3725 for one year unless you get the "eval kit" @ $449. USD $5/MO PER DEVICE Provides 750 data packets per device per month (up to 192 Bytes per packet), including up to 60 downlink (2-way) data packets

What might somebody (or some company) use this for? 192 bytes * 750 packets = 144000 bytes per month at what speed/latency?

I could see this being very useful for scientific beacons, for example to track ocean currents or bird migrations. The latter currently use cellular connections, but can only track birds through areas where reception is present.

Re: Swarm – Low cost, global satellite connectivity for IoT

#45

Post by shswkna » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 8:16 PM UTC

tspike wrote: post #13

This looks like a fantastic tool for ensuring the obsolescence of privacy.

This product is not for attaching to people, but things that you actually want to be tracked.

Re: Swarm – Low cost, global satellite connectivity for IoT

#46

Post by mmazing » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 8:17 PM UTC

NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #40

Well this is terrifying. Pretty soon you'll have to crack open your appliances to snip the antennas to prevent them from calling home, rather than just not giving them the wifi password...!

Not likely with those data rates, for better or worse

Re: Swarm – Low cost, global satellite connectivity for IoT

#47

Post by initplus » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 8:18 PM UTC

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #14

arriu wrote: post #12

Minimum order of 25, so roughly $3725 for one year unless you get the "eval kit" @ $449. USD $5/MO PER DEVICE Provides 750 data packets per device per month (up to 192 Bytes per packet), including up to 60 downlink (2-way) data packets

What might somebody (or some company) use this for? 192 bytes * 750 packets = 144000 bytes per month at what speed/latency?

Remote communication in places without cellular connectivity. Air quality, water quality, remote weather stations, aviation, industrial applications... Latency anywhere from a few seconds to minutes. Not used like normal networking, it's something you build around for very specialized applications.

Re: Swarm – Low cost, global satellite connectivity for IoT

#48

Post by Leherenn » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 8:20 PM UTC

moralestapia wrote: post #29

reaperducer wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Provides 750 data packets per device per month (up to 192 Bytes per packet) 144,000 bytes. Almost the capacity as a Commodore 1541 disk drive. 40 years ago it would have been unfathomable that a regular schmoe could transmit a floppy disk via satellite for just $5.

Sure, but 40 years have passed since then and 144K peanuts for any real world application. A quick example, you have a sensor that sends a single metric every minute. Suppose that you can pack that info (sensor id, metric type and data) in 32 bytes. You're looking at about 1.2MB/month of data (8 times your 144K), which will come to about $40/month. Quite expensive for a single data point, but I can imagine several us…

I don't think the general use case is once per minute though, more like once per hour unless something goes wrong. Something like ensure pipeline pressure is still nominal for remote parts of the pipeline.

Re: Swarm – Low cost, global satellite connectivity for IoT

#49

Post by initplus » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 8:21 PM UTC

stefan_ wrote: post #18

byw wrote: post #7

Looks like their documentation site is down. Any idea what kind of bandwidth we're talking about here?

And what latency. "Webhooks" and "REST API" isn't exactly screaming useful duplex communication channel.

High. At least if it's anything like Iridium, probably seconds to minutes depending on coverage. Really not designed to be used like general purpose networking.

Re: Swarm – Low cost, global satellite connectivity for IoT

#50

Post by proee » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 8:22 PM UTC

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #14

arriu wrote: post #12

Minimum order of 25, so roughly $3725 for one year unless you get the "eval kit" @ $449. USD $5/MO PER DEVICE Provides 750 data packets per device per month (up to 192 Bytes per packet), including up to 60 downlink (2-way) data packets

What might somebody (or some company) use this for? 192 bytes * 750 packets = 144000 bytes per month at what speed/latency?

How about for check points on an ultra-marathon desert run, where you are crossing the Sahara. Each check point could have an RFID reader that gives feedback on the racers. If Bob doesn't get to the next checkpoint in say 2 hours, you know he's probably lost.