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Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

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Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#41

Post by cannam »

franciscop wrote: post #35

The housing space metrics seem very far off from my experience, looking at numbers it seems "Tokyo" means "Tokyo Metropolis", which includes the countryside, mountains, etc. So it's not really comparing the city. If we look at the numbers for Tokyo 23 wards[1] (what would traditionally be called "the city"), we can see they are virtually half than those from Paris or London: 16.5-19.7sqm/person is the range that fall…

I don't know about NY or Paris, but the comparison against London seems fair enough. They seem to be using a Tokyo metropolitan area of about 2000 km^2, and comparing it with Greater London at 1572 km^2.

And indeed, people throughout Greater London are entirely used to living in small, damp, shared boxes.

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#42

Post by Jach »

franciscop wrote: post #35

The housing space metrics seem very far off from my experience, looking at numbers it seems "Tokyo" means "Tokyo Metropolis", which includes the countryside, mountains, etc. So it's not really comparing the city. If we look at the numbers for Tokyo 23 wards[1] (what would traditionally be called "the city"), we can see they are virtually half than those from Paris or London: 16.5-19.7sqm/person is the range that fall…

Thanks for the additional info, I found it a rather terrible article. Even taking its numbers at face value, it makes me sad for non-Americans. The difference between the NY average of 43 sqm vs the rest is essentially an extra room.

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#43

Post by Jach »

tjpnz wrote: post #37

I'm looking at buying next year. Unlike where I'm from (New Zealand) property in Tokyo is better quality (although that's not really difficult) and dare I say cheaper.

I've also heard it's rather easier for a foreigner to buy than to find a willing landlord...

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#44

Post by franciscop »

cannam wrote: post #41
franciscop wrote: post #35

The housing space metrics seem very far off from my experience, looking at numbers it seems "Tokyo" means "Tokyo Metropolis", which includes the countryside, mountains, etc. So it's not really comparing the city. If we look at the numbers for Tokyo 23 wards[1] (what would traditionally be called "the city"), we can see they are virtually half than those from Paris or London: 16.5-19.7sqm/person is the range that fall…

I don't know about NY or Paris, but the comparison against London seems fair enough. They seem to be using a Tokyo metropolitan area of about 2000 km^2, and comparing it with Greater London at 1572 km^2. And indeed, people throughout Greater London are entirely used to living in small, damp, shared boxes.

The geography of the "cities" is very different though (look at the density of population maps provided), where "Tokyo Metropolitan" is one third pure mountains, then one third low-density living (think L.A.) and then one third what people normally thinks of the city of Tokyo, all of these in a sausage-like shape, while "Greater London" grows in a circle and so it's a circle-ish area.

See this image with the labels, we should compare the green one instead of the 3 of them. Ideally "Tokyo" would be something more like the purple one, but the purple one is nothing. So we have "23 wards" (green), or Tokyo Metropolitan (the 3 together), neither of which is the best comparison, but def the green one vs London is much better than all of them (the purple dashes are how I think London would look like approx):

https://imgur.com/a/nCmkE80

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#45

Post by franciscop »

marak830 wrote: post #26
franciscop wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trash days 5~8am, normal days in any place with many restaurants 11pm~8am basically (Shibuya, Ebisu, Shinjuku, Ikebukuro, etc).

That would be more attributed to the multiple day trash picking depending on which type, though right? I mean Tuesday: burnable waste, wed cardboard, Thurs clothes and Fri other, will tend to have trash in the designated areas, on each of those days. Edit:spelling (Note:days and trash types differ a lot per area, but it's a good generalisation based off of my location).

That's one thing for sure, but I attribute it most to the lack of dumpsters. I am not sure why they were banned, the trash cans supposedly because of terrorism, but the larger containers/dumpsters would make the city so much cleaner and better.

Tip: when there's a typhoon, restaurants close and there's no trash on the street, the rats invade nearby shops looking desperately for food:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkpV_fCeuIE

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#46

Post by marak830 »

mdorazio wrote: post #39
marak830 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say yes, an hour to work - while long - is pretty acceptable to most. Many caveats here such as reliability of transport etc but it does come down to time.

An hour commute to work is most definitely not acceptable to most, especially post-pandemic. Median commute in the US is about 26 minutes and many people are now used to working from home some or all of the time. Hour-long commutes are outliers for a relatively small percentage of people in a small number of cities.

Fair enough, my point of view may be skewed by living here for quite awhile

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#48

Post by lillecarl »

skhr0680 wrote: post #33
quickthrower2 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost. Take reliability of trains into account too. If you are physically closer you have backup options (buses, other trains, bicycle perhaps!). Sydney has such slow transport that if you need to make connections it can be quicker to cycle the same distance. The UK people live not just in suburbs but entirely different cities to commute to London, but using trains that if they go wrong - and they will - it’ll be lo…

> Take reliability of trains into account too. I think it's fair to say that Japan is the country in the world with the most reliable trains

Switzerland, but Japan is up there indeed!

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#49

Post by ghaff »

mdorazio wrote: post #39
marak830 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say yes, an hour to work - while long - is pretty acceptable to most. Many caveats here such as reliability of transport etc but it does come down to time.

An hour commute to work is most definitely not acceptable to most, especially post-pandemic. Median commute in the US is about 26 minutes and many people are now used to working from home some or all of the time. Hour-long commutes are outliers for a relatively small percentage of people in a small number of cities.

Possibly. But close to an hour commute (or more) is probably the reality most places if you work downtown in a city and don’t live within the city limits. Even within NYC getting to the financial district from Brooklyn or Staten Island is probably hitting close to that.

Average commutes in the US are brought down by urbanites who live close to the office and suburbanites who live a modest drive away from an office park.

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#50

Post by thiago_fm »

The graph with many countries is ABSOLUTELY WRONG.

It says with $1500 rent you can get a 140m2 or 1500 sqft apartment in Berlin. HAHA! MAYBE IN THE 90s.

Not to mention that I'm willing to bet that less of 5% of housing in Berlin is 140m2 or higher. (might be 1% or less even)

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