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Accelerated forgetting of a trauma event after a single dose of hydrocortisone

nature.com

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Re: Accelerated forgetting of a trauma event after a single dose of hydrocortisone

#41

Post by roywiggins »

gateaux wrote: post #38
HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A long time ago my wife shattered her wrist. In the ER, they explained that they needed to reset it so it could be put in a splint before surgery could be scheduled. They weren't going to use anesthetic. She would be conscious of the pain as they moved her wrist into position, but they'd give her something so she wouldn't remember the experience. 15+ years later she remembers telling them to go ahead and do it, then…

Wow. Do you happen to know what it was they gave her?

I believe midazolam can cause amnesia, it's not technically an anesthetic in the sense that it doesn't knock you out, but it's a sedative.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midazolam

Re: Accelerated forgetting of a trauma event after a single dose of hydrocortisone

#42

Post by moate »

fasthands9 wrote: post #3

In the US it seems like it is extremely in vogue to talk about trauma and PTSD. From a layman's POV, it seems pretty obvious that talking about something very often (whether it be with a therapist or just friends) would elevate the amount of times someone thinks of something. From my understanding of the paper, this drug is a success if it lowers the amount of time someone thinks of a traumatic memory >We found that…

>>I'm really not an expert...

A lot more people should come to this conclusion, reflect on it, and then not post whatever thought helped them come to this realization. Just go read enough to inform an opinion on the matter before sharing it.

Re: Accelerated forgetting of a trauma event after a single dose of hydrocortisone

#43

Post by khazhoux »

Traubenfuchs wrote: post #2

Combine with propranolol for maximum effect. A very overlooked drug that can be used in the treatment of many disorders related to anxiety, stress and fear. Without the risk of debiliating addiction benzos and benzolikes bring. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14573324/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3692719/

Ah, propranolol... how I wished it was a thing back when I was in school. I used to practice my instrument for hours every day, just to choke when performing a solo in front of an audience. Fast forward 20+ years, and I embarrass myself by freezing up during a VP review. That damn lizard brain!

I finally got a prescription, and a full bottle of pills at the ready -- but I haven't tried it yet.

Re: Accelerated forgetting of a trauma event after a single dose of hydrocortisone

#44

Post by Traubenfuchs »

khazhoux wrote: post #43
Traubenfuchs wrote: post #2

Combine with propranolol for maximum effect. A very overlooked drug that can be used in the treatment of many disorders related to anxiety, stress and fear. Without the risk of debiliating addiction benzos and benzolikes bring. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14573324/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3692719/

Ah, propranolol... how I wished it was a thing back when I was in school. I used to practice my instrument for hours every day, just to choke when performing a solo in front of an audience. Fast forward 20+ years, and I embarrass myself by freezing up during a VP review. That damn lizard brain! I finally got a prescription, and a full bottle of pills at the ready -- but I haven't tried it yet.

I couldn‘t do job interviews without -I‘d probably be unemployed.

Re: Accelerated forgetting of a trauma event after a single dose of hydrocortisone

#45

Post by trollerator23 »

roywiggins wrote: post #40
O__________O wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paper: - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5678449/ Press coverage: - https://www.google.com/search?q=intitle:tetris+traumatic+mem... HN posts: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

This roundup concluded that the evidence is not particularly strong: "In short, there is no convincing evidence that playing Tetris actually helps people. The studies have methodological problems, tiny sample sizes, and have failed to replicate. Some found a reduction in “intrusive memories,” but no improvement in outcomes of PTSD or distress." https://www.madinamerica.com/2021/10/tetris-trauma-viral-twi...

That was a great article. Thank you.

Re: Accelerated forgetting of a trauma event after a single dose of hydrocortisone

#46

Post by fasthands9 »

moate wrote: post #42
fasthands9 wrote: post #3

In the US it seems like it is extremely in vogue to talk about trauma and PTSD. From a layman's POV, it seems pretty obvious that talking about something very often (whether it be with a therapist or just friends) would elevate the amount of times someone thinks of something. From my understanding of the paper, this drug is a success if it lowers the amount of time someone thinks of a traumatic memory >We found that…

>>I'm really not an expert... A lot more people should come to this conclusion, reflect on it, and then not post whatever thought helped them come to this realization. Just go read enough to inform an opinion on the matter before sharing it.

I strongly disagree. People who are experts in field X are self-selected people who agree with the assumptions that define the field.

There should not be discussion forum on the website if there is a belief that smart people (who have read plenty of books on clinical psychology and neurology) can't ask questions about something they haven't personally worked in.

Re: Accelerated forgetting of a trauma event after a single dose of hydrocortisone

#47

Post by lostlogin »

gateaux wrote: post #38
HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A long time ago my wife shattered her wrist. In the ER, they explained that they needed to reset it so it could be put in a splint before surgery could be scheduled. They weren't going to use anesthetic. She would be conscious of the pain as they moved her wrist into position, but they'd give her something so she wouldn't remember the experience. 15+ years later she remembers telling them to go ahead and do it, then…

Wow. Do you happen to know what it was they gave her?

Ketamine has been something I have seen used. The lack of reaction from people having broken bones manipulated while under its influence is very disconcerting.

Re: Accelerated forgetting of a trauma event after a single dose of hydrocortisone

#49

Post by fellowniusmonk »

canadiantim wrote: post #39
fellowniusmonk wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I've been on beta blockers for a heart defect for several years now. I read this paper about a year after going on them and just started exploring trauma on my own (stuff that made me weep or even pull face muscles in grief) the post sleep memory reconsolidation is basically a miracle and my emotional trauma responses were basically wrapped up within ~ 1 year. There is now nothing so awful I cannot touch, hold…

What is the post sleep memory reconsolidation? My mom has severe PTSD that is causing memory and cognitive decline because all her resources are dedicated to fight or flight. She is just a ball of the most significant stress you can imagine and it’s destroying her. Have any recommendations or suggestions?

Basically the protocol is to be on a beta blocker and then recall the memory and explore it followed by normal sleep.

This pulls the memory into short term storage and then when you sleep the memory will reconsolidate into long term storage but without the physiological adrenaline/stress response.

I had some terrible experiences that provoked strong grief responses and it took several cycles of recall / reconsolidation before the emotional stress response was stripped to something manageable.

Re: Accelerated forgetting of a trauma event after a single dose of hydrocortisone

#50

Post by lazide »

fasthands9 wrote: post #11
dmbche wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What they are reffering to as "intrusions" is not just having thoughts about the traumatic event, it is having intrusive and uncontrolable toughts pop into your mind when triggered - it's very disrupting and distracting. Depending on the level of trauma, these intrusions can be debilitating. In general, PTSD treatment involves changing one's perspective towards the traumatic event so that when triggered, the thoughts…

I realize I am being downvoted so perhaps this is settled in literature. I know PTSD can be traumatic and takes different forms I suppose my confusion still comes from the fact that stopping intrusive thoughts is measured as good. But what if these intrusive facts are needed (just like therapy) to process things in the long run? I would understand if someone could ran a (very costly) experiment that said "Taking this…

PTSD is a disorder because people aren’t clearing or processing these things successfully and it becomes disruptive to their life. Sometimes it destroys their lives.

If someone successfully processes the trauma in a way that isn’t disruptive, they by definition don’t have PTSD anymore.

What you’re saying is a bit like saying someone who suffers from persistent, terrible constipation, to the point it causes them health issues should ‘just poop’.

If they could on their own, they wouldn’t have the problem!

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