Working for the butcher prince. We don't need that kind of people near any NATO army. Let's hope they stay in Saudi Arabia.
In other news, this is just another symptom of a shrinking US empire. Pax americana is starting to crumble.
Retired U.S. generals, admirals take top jobs with Saudi crown prince
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Re: Retired U.S. generals, admirals take top jobs with Saudi crown prince
#42Chances are good these US ex-military are not loyal to Saudi Arabia. They're only doing it for the money, not fanatical idealisms. We have the Logan Act and Espionage Act to protect us, and we benefit from these activities through income taxes.
Law is only a paper veneer to keep honest people honest. Legal acts do about as much to deter desertion and security leaks as speed limit signs keep people from speeding.
> Law is only a paper veneer to keep honest people honest.
Not all laws.[1]
> Legal acts do about as much to deter desertion and security leaks as speed limit signs keep people from speeding.
Seems to be working well so far.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_law_of_universal_gr...
Re: Retired U.S. generals, admirals take top jobs with Saudi crown prince
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's an interesting interpretation and I hope you're right. I read it and just assumed it was people finally cashing out after public service and going to the highest bidder.
Oh they do get a great payday, but that does not necessarily mean that they cut informal ties with the Pentagon or do things against the wishes of the Pentagon. In this case, the US and the Saudis have been 'tight' for 70 years so one can imagine it is all very friendly...
And Michael Flynn?
> do things against the wishes of the Pentagon
I'm betting that the Pentagon prefers their retired senior staff don't whore themselves out to potential adversaries. But unless and until they cross a formal line, what are you gonna do? If the Pentagon comes across as punitive, e.g. by revoking any latent security clearances, there'll be a huge backlash. This form of consulting and liaising with international groups by retired military is nothing new, and there are legions of retired staff leveraging their status one way or another. It's a perk of the job. It's also not new that it can sometimes be rather unseemly, to say the least. What might be new is the amount of money being thrown around.
These relationships are quite valuable because while it may not seem that way in our social media bubbles and among our international cosmopolitan peers, the day-to-day cultures and administrative machinations of various governments and militaries can be extremely opaque simply because of the huge differences in presumptions and expectations. And this is true even among allies with seemingly similar cultures, which is why even a country like the U.S. with veritable armies of intelligence analysts do ridiculous *hit like bug Angela Merkel's cellphone. Retired personnel don't need to divulge secrets to provide extremely valuable and timely insights, especially as between countries like the U.S. and Saudi Arabia.
Re: Retired U.S. generals, admirals take top jobs with Saudi crown prince
#44On a related note: Ex-UK pilots lured to help Chinese military, MoD says https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-63293582
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Re: Retired U.S. generals, admirals take top jobs with Saudi crown prince
#45Working for the butcher prince. We don't need that kind of people near any NATO army. Let's hope they stay in Saudi Arabia. In other news, this is just another symptom of a shrinking US empire. Pax americana is starting to crumble.
No post body was provided.
Re: Retired U.S. generals, admirals take top jobs with Saudi crown prince
#46Well, they are free people, not slaves. If they want to take a job in the private sector, they should have the freedom to do it, including working for a sovereign state that is not an enemy. Of course, they have knowledge of classified stuff, but I'm sure there are protocols around that, and they are aware of it. It would be more scandalous if they were to take jobs with Russia, or Iran. But Saudi Arable is a US ally…
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Re: Retired U.S. generals, admirals take top jobs with Saudi crown prince
#47Bad optics, certainly. Both for the U.S. and for the DoD retirees working for not-so-savory governments. OTOH - certain foreign governments paying top dollar to employ a bunch of military big shots from the U.S. does not say good things about their local talent pools. And the situation may look less-than-inspired to what talented young locals there are.
> paying top dollar to employ a bunch of military big shots from the U.S. does not say good things about their local talent pools
It depends. If it's just "talent" they're after, then sure. If they're after things that can only come from a US military big shot, then it's a different issue.
Re: Retired U.S. generals, admirals take top jobs with Saudi crown prince
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
Law is only a paper veneer to keep honest people honest. Legal acts do about as much to deter desertion and security leaks as speed limit signs keep people from speeding.
> Law is only a paper veneer to keep honest people honest. Not all laws.[1] > Legal acts do about as much to deter desertion and security leaks as speed limit signs keep people from speeding. Seems to be working well so far. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_law_of_universal_gr...
But I hear that black holes are *notoriously* dishonest...
Re: Retired U.S. generals, admirals take top jobs with Saudi crown prince
#49Well, they are free people, not slaves. If they want to take a job in the private sector, they should have the freedom to do it, including working for a sovereign state that is not an enemy. Of course, they have knowledge of classified stuff, but I'm sure there are protocols around that, and they are aware of it. It would be more scandalous if they were to take jobs with Russia, or Iran. But Saudi Arable is a US ally…
My dim understanding is that once you are enrolled in General- and Admiral-level security clearances, you are not quite free free to freelance your experience globally without significant limitations.
The key questions raised would seem to be: did they in fact obtain the required signoffs, and are the current requirements sufficient or do they need some adjustment?
Re: Retired U.S. generals, admirals take top jobs with Saudi crown prince
#50Working for the butcher prince. We don't need that kind of people near any NATO army. Let's hope they stay in Saudi Arabia. In other news, this is just another symptom of a shrinking US empire. Pax americana is starting to crumble.
Quoted post unavailable.
Like this? https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/09/technology/twitter-saudi-...
A former Twitter employee was convicted on Tuesday by a jury in federal court of six charges related to accusations that he spied on the company’s users for Saudi Arabia.
While at Twitter, Ahmad Abouammo, 44, managed media partnerships in the Middle East and North Africa. He developed relationships with prominent individuals in the region, receiving hundreds of thousands of dollars and a luxury watch from a top adviser to Saudi Arabia’s crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman. In return, prosecutors said, he shared the personal user information of dissidents with Saudi officials.
The jury convicted Mr. Abouammo of two counts of wire fraud or conspiracy to commit wire fraud, two counts of money laundering, one count of falsifying records and one count of acting as an agent of a foreign government without properly disclosing that work. It found Mr. Abouammo not guilty on five counts of wire fraud or conspiracy to commit wire fraud.