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Is Truss Still PM?

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Re: Is Truss Still PM?

#41

Post by BerislavLopac »

klelatti wrote: post #22

Interesting and relevant post from David Allen Green [1] about the historical origins of the title 'Prime Minister'. > It was a title that was used just to describe the most dominant minister of the day, the one who controlled the cabinet and had the confidence of parliament – usually the First Lord of the Treasury but sometimes not. > And if today one asked an alien looking down from space who was the Prime Minister…

> that alien would assume it was Jeremy Hunt

A real alien would realise that it was the Tufton Street gang.

Re: Is Truss Still PM?

#42

Post by denton-scratch »

depr wrote: post #35
jemmyw wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not dangerous. Other countries have managed with their parliamentary system out of action for extended amounts of time. That's the point of having strong institutions and a civil service. The Tories haven't totally destroyed that yet, despite their efforts.

Indeed Belgium was without (elected) government for 652 days in 2018 - 2020.

The Belgian government system is quite different from the UK system.

Re: Is Truss Still PM?

#43

Post by denton-scratch »

implements wrote: post #36
denton-scratch wrote: post #8

The page said "Yes"; the page is wrong. The new Chancellor of the Exchequer is not under Truss's control, he's under the control of men in grey suits. If Truss doesn't control cabinet ministers, she isn't the Prime Minister. We have no government; we need a General Election immediately. This is a very dangerous situation.

Only dangerous if you think she’s going to go rogue with one of her Prerogative powers, which is unlikely given it appears she’s under close supervision by the Parliamentary Conservative Party.

> she’s under close supervision by the Parliamentary Conservative Party.

Interesting. Only 20% of the PCP voted for her, yet she's nominally PM. Reportedly many conservative MPs are considering crossing the floor. Others are trying to figure out how to get her to hand-over to someone else (who?) without another leadership election, and especially without letting the party members have any say.

How are the PCP supposed to keep her "under close supervision"?

Re: Is Truss Still PM?

#44

Post by smcl »

daveoc64 wrote: post #21
fdfaz wrote: post #16

Is there any reason to think she's about to leave or is this some wishful thinking from the usual suspects?

Have you seen the news in the UK this week? She's had a terrible week (and that's saying something given her premiership to date). She had to sack the chancellor that enacted all of her campaign promises, bring in a new chancellor who has undone all of her campaign promises. Some of the polls coming out suggest the Conservatives would be in 3rd place at a General Election behind the SNP.

Holy shit I hadn't checked in a few weeks, but yeah if an election was held tomorrow they could potentially finish third: https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html

Re: Is Truss Still PM?

#45

Post by mtlmtlmtlmtl »

AndrewDucker wrote: post #28
mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #25

From a democratic point of view the only thing that makes sense to me now is a snap election. The Tories have now had one PM resign in disgrace and then seemingly failed to set up an acceptable new cabinet. I see no reason why they should keep their mandate without renewed voter support. I suppose the king could instruct Labour to try to form a minority cabinet, but that's beyond my understanding of the procedures of…

By what process do you think there would be one? Unless the Conservatives decide that they don't want to be in power any more, there is no way to make an election happen.

Yeah, that's the unfortunate reality when the Tories hold a majority alone.

A single party majority is not a healthy state of affairs because it basically bypasses parliamentarism. Good luck ever having even the possibility of a minority cabinet, and good luck triggering an election when the majority party misbehaves.

Re: Is Truss Still PM?

#46

Post by smcl »

jemmyw wrote: post #24
denton-scratch wrote: post #8

The page said "Yes"; the page is wrong. The new Chancellor of the Exchequer is not under Truss's control, he's under the control of men in grey suits. If Truss doesn't control cabinet ministers, she isn't the Prime Minister. We have no government; we need a General Election immediately. This is a very dangerous situation.

It's not dangerous. Other countries have managed with their parliamentary system out of action for extended amounts of time. That's the point of having strong institutions and a civil service. The Tories haven't totally destroyed that yet, despite their efforts.

If you want things like the UK's National Health Service to exist, it is pretty dangerous to have someone like Jeremy Hunt wielding this kind of power. The situation might not wreck or bankrupt the country outright, but it opens the door for all manner of public services to be gutted

Re: Is Truss Still PM?

#48

Post by drcongo »

smcl wrote: post #44
daveoc64 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you seen the news in the UK this week? She's had a terrible week (and that's saying something given her premiership to date). She had to sack the chancellor that enacted all of her campaign promises, bring in a new chancellor who has undone all of her campaign promises. Some of the polls coming out suggest the Conservatives would be in 3rd place at a General Election behind the SNP.

Holy shit I hadn't checked in a few weeks, but yeah if an election was held tomorrow they could potentially finish third: https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html

There's a map here that graphically shows just what a wipeout it would be: https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/158203973484657459...

Re: Is Truss Still PM?

#50

Post by drcongo »

implements wrote: post #36
denton-scratch wrote: post #8

The page said "Yes"; the page is wrong. The new Chancellor of the Exchequer is not under Truss's control, he's under the control of men in grey suits. If Truss doesn't control cabinet ministers, she isn't the Prime Minister. We have no government; we need a General Election immediately. This is a very dangerous situation.

Only dangerous if you think she’s going to go rogue with one of her Prerogative powers, which is unlikely given it appears she’s under close supervision by the Parliamentary Conservative Party.

She’s under close supervision of the Tufton Street lot, not the PCP.
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