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Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

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Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#41

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

bluecalm wrote: post #16
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #6

Cheating at 3+2 games while streaming? How's it is even possible to input all moves/positions into a chess program in parallel too main game and also while commenting? IMO it is impossible without some very specialized software or external assistance who would do the clicks. And how does he cheat in over the board events?

3+2 is a lot of time to input the moves several times over and prepare coffee in the meantime. Seriously, it's not a slightest problem for a competent online blitz player. OTB cheating: there are many possible ways. The simplest one being having a script reading the moves from the live broadcast and feeding them to an engine and then sending the info to the player. Hans' strength magically decreased in the Sinquefiel…

> Hans' strength magically decreased in the Sinquefield cup once broadcast delay was introduced for example.

So you discount a possibility that the controversy and allegations against him had at least some effect in him playing worse in the Sinquefield Cup?

Anyway, there were studies out there that there were no statistical differences in his rating gains in tournaments broadcasted with delays and without it. Study by Kenneth Regan also found no irregularities in his play, so the only 'evidence' of him using computer help are allegations by a company that is in business relationship with Carlsen, and his 'bad' analysis in post game interview. I'm not very impressed.

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#42

Post by jrm4 »

selfmodruntime wrote: post #22

The fact that an athlete in a competitive sport was allowed to partake in an event even after admitting to cheating not only once, but twice, is outrageous in itself.

Right? I completely didn't understand this part? In pretty much everything else, you cheat, you're basically done.

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#43

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

beardyw wrote: post #21
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #6

Cheating at 3+2 games while streaming? How's it is even possible to input all moves/positions into a chess program in parallel too main game and also while commenting? IMO it is impossible without some very specialized software or external assistance who would do the clicks. And how does he cheat in over the board events?

It is very easy indeed. Stockfish would be an immense help. Best moves are calculated progressively, that is they are refined over a few seconds. Inexperienced players are given away by delaying over obvious moves waiting for the best move. It is definitely not rocket science. You can download and run Stockfish yourself. I think chess.com possibly runs it in the browser.

I know the basics how to do it, it is rather obvious. I just feel that operating two boards manually is really a chore, and definitely not while streaming.

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#44

Post by slivanes »

arecurrence wrote: post #29

Why don't cheaters just use two machines or even just their phone and a laptop? The evidence is often around other processes or browser tabs running on their device (and in this case also focus loss) but an immediate thought must be to simply use multiple devices.

You mostly read about cheaters who get caught.

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#45

Post by antiterra »

selfmodruntime wrote: post #22

The fact that an athlete in a competitive sport was allowed to partake in an event even after admitting to cheating not only once, but twice, is outrageous in itself.

The admissions were from when he was 12 and 16; many so societies generally believe in redemption from childhood transgressions.

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#46

Post by angio »

zqlamp wrote: post #25

The chess.com campaign continues. 100 games are nothing online, Carlsen/Firouzja play that in a single night. The headline is pure propaganda and omits the word "online". In fact, the article tries to paint Niemann as a liar while the purported facts pretty much match what he admitted to. One cheating in a titled tournament at age 12 and multiple cheats at the beginning of 2020. He said he was 16, so he was barely 17…

He cheated in prize money tournaments. That's borderline fraud.

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#47

Post by suetoniusp »

axxl wrote: post #8
Version467 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How aren't they impartial? They are obviously an interested party, but do they have an incentive to skew the facts? If so in which direction? Not doubting you, just genuinely interested.

Magnus owns a decent stake in them (20% maybe?) and has been very publicly making accusations as well.

Its not that much, but the article ignores the fact that chess.com knew all of this and invited him to their tournaments. Then once the Singfield cup event happened and Magnus got mad they banned him.

They have been selectively releasing information about him and his one time coach for a few weeks now. While in the past they have never, not once, released any of their cheating information. Why now?

If they dont release the report they are talking about then this article is nothing.

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#48

Post by sh4rks »

whartung wrote: post #32

So, I'm not much of a chess person, much less a competitive chess person. Can the "over the board" cheating potential be reduced with a 5 minute "tape delay" of broadcasting the game? Is that enough time to thwart the influence of an external signal? Seems to me the only way this person can redeem himself is through over the board play under strict conditions ("Come dressed in shorts, a t-shirt and sandals"). But I d…

The delay would have to be a lot longer than 5 minutes. It's not uncommon for players to take 30+ mins on a single move in OTB chess.

Also, if your cheating device allows you to somehow input chess positions, then you wouldn't even require an external signal. Though it would be extremely impressive if somebody could pull that off.

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#49

Post by jayski »

jrm4 wrote: post #42
selfmodruntime wrote: post #22

The fact that an athlete in a competitive sport was allowed to partake in an event even after admitting to cheating not only once, but twice, is outrageous in itself.

Right? I completely didn't understand this part? In pretty much everything else, you cheat, you're basically done.

I'm not a fan of this player, I don't even play chess.

Still it sounds a bit harsh to me that a child that cheated online can never in his adult life participate in chess tournaments.

If he had cheated as an adult I would have a different opinion.

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#50

Post by frumper »

zqlamp wrote: post #25

The chess.com campaign continues. 100 games are nothing online, Carlsen/Firouzja play that in a single night. The headline is pure propaganda and omits the word "online". In fact, the article tries to paint Niemann as a liar while the purported facts pretty much match what he admitted to. One cheating in a titled tournament at age 12 and multiple cheats at the beginning of 2020. He said he was 16, so he was barely 17…

Did I miss where cheating online is somehow not as bad as cheating in person? I understand it's harder to cheat in person, but I never thought it was "worse" to cheat in person because it's the worst thing you can do to your opponents in either an online, or an in-person game.
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