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USB kills off SuperSpeed branding

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Re: USB kills off SuperSpeed branding

#41

Post by 0x457 »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #16

How does this handle 2x1 vs 1x2 vs 2x2?

Those are irrelevant? Consumers only care about: speed and wattage. You're technically never supposed to care or even know about which USB standard it is, all of those Gen 3.2 2x2 aren't supposed to be consumer facing.

USB 3.2 Gen 2×2 “consumer” name is^W was "SuperSpeed USB 20 Gbps" that is what USB-IF been suggesting since the beginning. However, to use that name, they have to submit to testing and compliance. Otherwise, they can use whatever name they want.

As long as there are no two different standards that are capable of the same wattage and speed—everything is good.

Re: USB kills off SuperSpeed branding

#42

Post by kaszanka »

0x457 wrote: post #39
userbinator wrote: post #25

I think the IEEE got it right with their Ethernet standards: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet_physical_layer#Naming... The newer USB transfer speeds are basically using the same sort of line code as the Ethernet standards anyway. So doing something similar with USB would result in... 1.5BASE-UT (USB 1.1) 12BASE-UT (USB 2.0 FS) 480BASE-UT (USB 2.0 HS) 5000BASE-UT (USB 3.0 / 3.1 Gen 1 / 3.2 Gen 1) 10GBASE-UT (USB…

That only solves half of the issues. What about cables? What does UT stand for?

"UnTwisted", I suppose

Re: USB kills off SuperSpeed branding

#43

Post by 0x457 »

tinus_hn wrote: post #6
theandrewbailey wrote: post #2

This wouldn't be necessary if Big USB had better versioning numbers to begin with. They're right that customers shouldn't see "USB4 Gen whatever x LOL", but it shouldn't be a name underneath, either.

Names are fine, the problem is if you call something superspeed what are you going to call next years speed? Hyper speed? Ultraspeed? Turbospeed? You rather quickly run out, and that’s if it doesn’t start sounding ridiculously hyperbolic before that. And of course superspeed is super slow by todays standards. So you have to either use marketing names that don’t mean anything by themselves, or numbers that naturally i…

Well, USB-IF made a mistake with USB High Speed, Super Speed (+), Full Speed.

Since 3.2 it was pretty simple:

- SuperSpeed USB 5Gbps

- SuperSpeed USB 10Gbps

- and so on.

However, to use, those vendors must send devices for testing and compliance. Many just don't do certification because they don't want, and some don't do that because they're making straight up non-compliant: SuperSpeed USB 20Gbps a.k.a. USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 can only come in USB-C form.

USB 3.2 Gen 1x2 which has the same speed as USB 3.2 Gen 2x1, but it only comes in USB-C unlike USB 3.2 Gen 2x1. When you see a motherboard with USB-A ports and those specs - those are not certified.

Then Super Speed branding tells you nothing about Power Delivery.

Re: USB kills off SuperSpeed branding

#44

Post by userbinator »

auxym wrote: post #40
zuminator wrote: post #15

They still have the problem of "Hi-Speed" being the slowest speed. They should've killed that name off too and required that manufacturers use the designation ½Gbps to be in line with the other speeds.

Actually "full speed" (USB 1.1, 12 Mbps) is the slowest speed that still somewhat common (in keyboards, etc). High speed (USB 2.0) is 480 Mbps. I do agree though, as you and many other people have in the comments, just getting a numeric Mbps rating would be way better than the 3.1 x2 gen 4 nonsense.

I believe most keyboards and mouses use "low speed" (1.5Mbps).

Re: USB kills off SuperSpeed branding

#45

Post by userbinator »

0x457 wrote: post #39
userbinator wrote: post #25

I think the IEEE got it right with their Ethernet standards: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet_physical_layer#Naming... The newer USB transfer speeds are basically using the same sort of line code as the Ethernet standards anyway. So doing something similar with USB would result in... 1.5BASE-UT (USB 1.1) 12BASE-UT (USB 2.0 FS) 480BASE-UT (USB 2.0 HS) 5000BASE-UT (USB 3.0 / 3.1 Gen 1 / 3.2 Gen 1) 10GBASE-UT (USB…

That only solves half of the issues. What about cables? What does UT stand for?

USB twisted-pair.

Re: USB kills off SuperSpeed branding

#46

Post by wmf »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #20

So if I've got two computers, each with a port labelled 40 Gbps and a USB cable labelled 40 Gbps, what's the protocol I can use to copy files at close to that? FWIW I used to run PLIP back in the nineties (IP over parallel port) to share my dialup Internet connection between my desktop and "laptop", so I'm not afraid of anything.

Just don't expect to get more than ~20 Gbps due to undocumented controller bottlenecks.

Re: USB kills off SuperSpeed branding

#47

Post by userbinator »

0x457 wrote: post #41
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #16

How does this handle 2x1 vs 1x2 vs 2x2?

Those are irrelevant? Consumers only care about: speed and wattage. You're technically never supposed to care or even know about which USB standard it is, all of those Gen 3.2 2x2 aren't supposed to be consumer facing. USB 3.2 Gen 2×2 “consumer” name is^W was "SuperSpeed USB 20 Gbps" that is what USB-IF been suggesting since the beginning. However, to use that name, they have to submit to testing and compliance. Othe…

As long as there are no two different standards that are capable of the same wattage and speed

There are. USB 3.2 Gen 1x2 and 3.2 Gen 2 are both nominally 10Gbps but use different signaling.

Re: USB kills off SuperSpeed branding

#48

Post by cududa »

Bellend wrote: post #32
cududa wrote: post #30

This is still ridiculous. The USB certified logo should be one image, then a similar sized wattage and Gbps number displayed next to it. The pertinent information is still too tiny. The cables themselves are still way too easy to mix up. Connector's inner plastic should have different colors

No in my view. USB should be USB. That rectangle thing you poke into a port somewhere. Not just on chargers, motherboards or literally aircraft and cars. If it's not that. Call it something else. LEET, PHAT, BIGPORT. I really don't understand. Universal Serial Bus... in 10 different formats make's it no longer universal.

Honestly I'd prefer that! Have fried two devices using the wrong damn cable/ charger. Sure the device should have had better power IC's etc to prevent anything from happening when I plugged in the wrong one, but still, they all look the damn same!

Re: USB kills off SuperSpeed branding

#49

Post by cududa »

layer8 wrote: post #37
Bellend wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USB-rainbow? It's literally not USB. I am USB-#ff33ff. How is it Universal?

More like: First ring: Red: Hi-Speed Yellow: 5 Gbps Green: 20 Gbps Blue: 40 Gbps Black: charging only Second ring: Orange: 60 W Cyan: 240 W Black: data only Plus print the values on the rings in black font, for the colorblind.

Yep. Just do it on the cable, heat shrink some wrapper around it and make it extremely obvious on the box. Try walking Grandma through what cable and charging brick to use over the phone when she calls you while she's at walmart

Re: USB kills off SuperSpeed branding

#50

Post by jefftk »

cududa wrote: post #48
Bellend wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No in my view. USB should be USB. That rectangle thing you poke into a port somewhere. Not just on chargers, motherboards or literally aircraft and cars. If it's not that. Call it something else. LEET, PHAT, BIGPORT. I really don't understand. Universal Serial Bus... in 10 different formats make's it no longer universal.

Honestly I'd prefer that! Have fried two devices using the wrong damn cable/ charger. Sure the device should have had better power IC's etc to prevent anything from happening when I plugged in the wrong one, but still, they all look the damn same!

USB does mean that already! If you have two spec-compliant devices, connecting them with a USB cable should never cause one to get fried.
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