41–50 of 111 posts
It's painful to keep talking over my partner. Frankly, I label myself a pushy bitch when I do it. But the fact that I need to earn this title keeps me doing it.
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Were you able to practice your delivery on some colleagues in the business? Because the way we communicate negotiation strikes me as absolutely crucial in not coming of as aggressive. Not that I don't believe you when you say that there's a double standard wrt the kind of negotiation behavior is accepted from men and women.
I can't say I was able to really practice this stuff. Here's one thing which did happen, though: while describing a particular failure, I said " and dropped the ball on this one". One of the guys on my team really objected to that. He didn't like hearing it from me. I thought for a second and said, "hey, wait, you don't react like that when says the same thing". He just got really quiet and never really addressed the…
I'd recommend reading up on the topic of persuading people if you feel shaky. "How to Win Friends and Influence People" is a pretty good classic starter. How you approach this kind of stuff can make all the difference in the world. (And I'm not saying that they weren't unfairly discriminating against you. But there are good ways and less-good ways to address that situation, and picking a fight should usually be a last resort IMO.)
What I like about this article is that it's not trying to point blame. It's not that men are actively trying to shut out women or making a hostile environment (although some probably are), it's that they do it in subtle ways without even noticing. It's not that women are too timid, it's that they are making the optimal short-term choice. I'm reminded of a study I read a looong time back (sorry I don't remember where)…
I wonder what kind of critical mass would be necessary to shift the norms, even in relatively liberal places, such that when a man and a woman both start talking, it's even odds which one will continue talking? '
I think it's also possible, at least in many groups, to have people look at the gestalt of your behavior. If you're friendly and helpful in one-on-ones, but in meetings tend to speak up more, then you're ought to be likely to be labeled a bitch (or whatever the male equivalent is) than if you're pushy and domineering all the time.
Having said that, I might have to justify whether my argument subtly implies that there are fewer women who are in the "truly outstanding" category. Fewer of them spent their youth in basements staring at terminals, compared to the countless male nerds. There are exceptions of course, but there is still a statistical anomaly.
I hope this doesn't come out as sexist. I am not comparing intellect, just choices.
Edit: Replaced "genius" with "truly outstanding".
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Were you able to practice your delivery on some colleagues in the business? Because the way we communicate negotiation strikes me as absolutely crucial in not coming of as aggressive. Not that I don't believe you when you say that there's a double standard wrt the kind of negotiation behavior is accepted from men and women.
I can't say I was able to really practice this stuff. Here's one thing which did happen, though: while describing a particular failure, I said " and dropped the ball on this one". One of the guys on my team really objected to that. He didn't like hearing it from me. I thought for a second and said, "hey, wait, you don't react like that when says the same thing". He just got really quiet and never really addressed the…
And you don't see cause-effect in any of this? If you do this repeatedly, and then suddenly start asserting yourself, yes, it'll have a significantly larger impact on how you're viewed than if you did it from the start - people notice changes more than they notice the status-quo. Start strong and you'll be seen as strong. Start weak and start making noise, and you're complaining.
>They always preferred to work with a woman who stayed mum.
Did your findings include that this is true for men as well? Unless it's a very well balanced group dynamic, there's little room for two+ people to try to manipulate things. It tends to be one leader and many followers, or a group of leaders that magically work well together. That's called humanity, not masculinity, and don't even begin to pretend women get along better together than men do, because you can't measure it without measuring against the already-influenced culture you're looking at.
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Could the analogy be extended to give some clues on how to get a better deal without violating for-whatever-reason-ingrained reactions? The standard advice for a single woman is not to ask men out on dates, but to "get yourself out there." What would the analogous behavior look like from a potential employee? Conferences? Blogging? Fine-tuning of resume?
That's an absolutely great point. What if, for example, prices for things like conferences were lower for women? I'm sure that even men would appreciate a higher female-to-male ratio at such events (and women would not feel like black sheep being there). In fact, this is such a win-win scenario that I don't understand why this is not being done currently.
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Perhaps, it's time we as a society reconsidered the negative connotations we attach to the word "slut"
From my male point of view, I would say our society celebrates women who are, so called, "sluts." They are the envy of many people, men and women alike. Nobody wants to be the religious nun doing valuable charity work that benefits the world, they want to be the next Kim Kardashian. The women we place in high regard are women who know how to get what they want. If you ask a young girl today what she wants to be when…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can't say I was able to really practice this stuff. Here's one thing which did happen, though: while describing a particular failure, I said " and dropped the ball on this one". One of the guys on my team really objected to that. He didn't like hearing it from me. I thought for a second and said, "hey, wait, you don't react like that when says the same thing". He just got really quiet and never really addressed the…
I'm confused. Was this an objection to your terminology, or just to hearing you criticize someone? Either one is totally preposterous, but I'm sitting here trying to imagine how someone could find the phrase 'dropped the ball' as offensive. Was it perceived as innuendo or something? Really now?