Meta and Google are cutting staff • Hacker News Board

Re: Meta and Google are cutting staff

#41

Post by rosywoozlechan » Wed, Sep 21, 2022, 6:34 PM UTC

nafix wrote: post #39

rosywoozlechan wrote: post #26

Some of these comments mentioned in the article coming from Meta's leadership about there being people who shouldn't probably be there or to get rid of coasters seems so inhumane and demoralizing. What kind of leadership is that? I mean it's understandable that businesses have to cut costs, but have some empathy, and understand how words affect people. Just wow. It's so cynical and depressing.

I like it. I really dislike working with under-performers and people who just refuse to do due diligence on their end. I dislike working with people who always want you to come over to their frame of mind rather than trying to get into yours or meet in the middle. I saw a ton of people coasting during Covid. People need to get negative feedback when they deserve it.

The arrival of Covid was a period of great stress and change in people's lives. Maybe they were dealing with some things and not really coasting? Just maybe needed some more support? This way of thinking about people, coworkers, without understanding the situation in their lives and what they've been talking to with their managers about, is just alien to me and I don't understand it. I don't think it's a good way to manage people.

If you have a problem with someone being a burden on your team that you and others have to deal with, that's understandable and you should bring it up with your team, but managers talking in these sorts of ways in public conversation about the people working at their company, it's just awful.

Re: Meta and Google are cutting staff

#42

Post by subsubzero » Wed, Sep 21, 2022, 6:35 PM UTC

paganel wrote: post #31

tempsy wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nasdaq is down 30%. Clearly macro factors like rates and inflation and recessionary pressures are putting pressure on rate sensitive companies generally speaking. You can’t just say it’s ad tracking when dozens of mid and large cap tech stocks are down 30-80% ytd

> Clearly macro factors like rates and inflation To quote from the latest Economist [1]: > This logic has broader implications than most investors realise. Now imagine you will receive $100 a year, for ever. By the reasoning above, this has a finite present value, since compound interest means payments in the distant future are almost worthless. With interest rates at 1%, the payment stream is worth $10,000; at 5%, i…

Thanks for this, its confusing for many as to why growth companies(low/no-profit) are getting hit so hard due to rising interest rates and these quotes and the article linked explain the reasoning very well.

Re: Meta and Google are cutting staff

#43

Post by badwolf » Wed, Sep 21, 2022, 6:37 PM UTC

stocknoob wrote: post #30

dafty4 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The stock price dive at Meta is pretty clearly due to the $10B hit from Apple’s Do Not Track Feature. Meta should make a free Android phone that allows tracking.

Do not track is an easy scapegoat, but I think the rise of TikTok is a larger factor. Meta lost users.

I think this, along with a slew of other factors as well.

Meta pivoting to burn money on a VR universe that nobody actually seems to want. Meta burning FB users by constantly altering their FB news feed, making it less and less a place for friends, and more a place to see endless reposted memes and ads for drop-ship products and stolen IP tshirts. Meta burning Instagram users by trying to force everyone's favorite photo-sharing app to be a shittier version of TikTok, as well as the above constant feed refactors...

Re: Meta and Google are cutting staff

#44

Post by boringg » Wed, Sep 21, 2022, 6:38 PM UTC

jejeyyy77 wrote: post #5

tempsy wrote: post #2

This will be the trend among most tech companies. Very clear the market has now negatively reacted to high operating expenses that largely stem from excessive headcount. Most companies will likely not reduce pay if they can help it to maintain competitiveness, but if you’re a bottom or middle performer or on a non-revenue generating team suddenly your job security even at “safe” companies like Google is at risk.

Personally, being laid off sounds pretty good right about now. Paid vacation before going back into a hot job market for a full remote job.

What job market are you looking at? The small shops with help wanted? I don't know any tech companies on major hiring and not many small companies have had any big rounds to raise and grow on AFAIK...

Re: Meta and Google are cutting staff

#45

Post by karmasimida » Wed, Sep 21, 2022, 6:42 PM UTC

jejeyyy77 wrote: post #5

tempsy wrote: post #2

This will be the trend among most tech companies. Very clear the market has now negatively reacted to high operating expenses that largely stem from excessive headcount. Most companies will likely not reduce pay if they can help it to maintain competitiveness, but if you’re a bottom or middle performer or on a non-revenue generating team suddenly your job security even at “safe” companies like Google is at risk.

Personally, being laid off sounds pretty good right about now. Paid vacation before going back into a hot job market for a full remote job.

> hot job market

You'd be surprised :). Even Amazon isn't eating up engineers like it was a year ago.

No, there is no hot job market, unless you want to take 30-40% pay cut.

Re: Meta and Google are cutting staff

#46

Post by assttoasstmgr » Wed, Sep 21, 2022, 6:43 PM UTC

tempsy wrote: post #7

jejeyyy77 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, being laid off sounds pretty good right about now. Paid vacation before going back into a hot job market for a full remote job.

Depends what your salary expectations are, I guess. Finding a role with the same compensation as a Meta/Google is more difficult than finding one of many dozens of companies that will pay you low six figures and some questionable equity package.

No post body was provided.

Re: Meta and Google are cutting staff

#47

Post by kevstev » Wed, Sep 21, 2022, 6:44 PM UTC

game_the0ry wrote: post #15

I can't read WSJ while at work, but after checking on the financials for both Meta and Alphabet, I do not understand why either would be cutting staff. Both look pretty strong, so I am not sure how cuts are justified or why Zuckerberg has a negative outlook, especially since 2021 was such a great year for both. Do American executives, investors, and start up owners not have the guts for even a moderate stock price dr…

Google's profits dropped last quarter, and that is a rare occurrence for them. Metas revenue actually fell last quarter, with profits dropping 35%. IIRC, that's the first revenue drop they have had since going public.

This isn't about stock prices, this is about the strength of the underlying business.

Re: Meta and Google are cutting staff

#48

Post by PragmaticPulp » Wed, Sep 21, 2022, 6:45 PM UTC

theanarcrist wrote: post #34

game_the0ry wrote: post #15

I can't read WSJ while at work, but after checking on the financials for both Meta and Alphabet, I do not understand why either would be cutting staff. Both look pretty strong, so I am not sure how cuts are justified or why Zuckerberg has a negative outlook, especially since 2021 was such a great year for both. Do American executives, investors, and start up owners not have the guts for even a moderate stock price dr…

My current theory on this, particularly for Google, is they're just taking advantage of the macroeconomic moment to cut some fat. Slowing growth or outright letting people go is a no-go in times of macroeconomic growth. Big companies, even if not strictly needed, can be opportunistic here and make some cuts they wouldn't be able to in other circumstances.

Yep. The hiring market has shifted from ultra-competitive during the COVID economic boom to being much tighter and more competitive during this economic downturn. You can't hire at Meta and Google scale without collecting some mis-hires and poor performers.

When the hiring market is tight you might keep them on longer and try to mentor them up to par, but when the hiring market shifts and there are a lot of great candidates on the market it's better to let the underperformers go and re-fill those jobs with great performers who are back on the market for whatever reason.

They're still hiring. This is more like cycling out hires that didn't work AND some collateral employees who unfortunately got lumped into those teams and cancelled projects. Often, the great employees who get "laid off" are quickly scooped up by other teams within the company who need their talent. It's not good business to let great engineers go.

Re: Meta and Google are cutting staff

#49

Post by wollsmoth » Wed, Sep 21, 2022, 6:45 PM UTC

jejeyyy77 wrote: post #21

wollsmoth wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

rates haven't been rising for two decades.

there's been a new reason for why "this time is different" for the past 2 decades.

I mean a number of tech companies are declining in value. What would you need to see happen to consider them "in trouble"? More layoffs?

Re: Meta and Google are cutting staff

#50

Post by jzb » Wed, Sep 21, 2022, 6:49 PM UTC

jejeyyy77 wrote: post #5

tempsy wrote: post #2

This will be the trend among most tech companies. Very clear the market has now negatively reacted to high operating expenses that largely stem from excessive headcount. Most companies will likely not reduce pay if they can help it to maintain competitiveness, but if you’re a bottom or middle performer or on a non-revenue generating team suddenly your job security even at “safe” companies like Google is at risk.

Personally, being laid off sounds pretty good right about now. Paid vacation before going back into a hot job market for a full remote job.

The job market seems to have cooled substantially from where I'm looking. I have friends at a lot of different major tech companies and hiring has slowed or stopped in all cases. Earlier this year it was full steam ahead hiring, now it's harder to get reqs, reqs are being pulled, etc.

Now, if you have really in-demand skills / experience that may not matter much. But companies are slamming on the breaks. If I was laid off tomorrow I'd expect it to take twice as long to find a job as it would've at the end of 2021 or early this year. Not "there aren't any jobs" but I wouldn't consider this a "hot" market for the majority of roles.