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Facebook settles with FTC, under privacy watch for 20 years

ftc.gov

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Re: Facebook settles with FTC, under privacy watch for 20 years

#41

Post by freehunter »

mgummelt wrote: post #24
jellicle wrote: post #15

So the penalty for ongoing repeated lies and fraud is.... nothing. Zero. The FTC has investigated, and the settlement is zero money and zero penalties. Not one dollar. Whew! I'm glad they were punished! They won't do THAT again! The U.S. is really in late-stage empire breakdown. I don't think there is any significant enforcement of any laws whatsoever against companies and people that are reasonably well connected. T…

Care to fill in the logical leap from your second to third lines?

Possibly something like "Corporations can get away with anything because they run the country and there's no turning back."

Just a guess.

Re: Facebook settles with FTC, under privacy watch for 20 years

#42

Post by Bud »

dreamdu5t wrote: post #35
jellicle wrote: post #15

So the penalty for ongoing repeated lies and fraud is.... nothing. Zero. The FTC has investigated, and the settlement is zero money and zero penalties. Not one dollar. Whew! I'm glad they were punished! They won't do THAT again! The U.S. is really in late-stage empire breakdown. I don't think there is any significant enforcement of any laws whatsoever against companies and people that are reasonably well connected. T…

Privacy policies are not binding agreements or contracts. Facebook didn't lie. They simply don't have to follow their privacy policy exactly, since it's not a binding agreement.

No. They lied.

The fact that there was, according to you, no binding contract, has no bearing on the question of whether they lied or not. They did lie. Case closed.

Re: Facebook settles with FTC, under privacy watch for 20 years

#43

Post by 1010100101 »

johnnyg wrote: post #18

Many have posted to this thread with complaints that boil down to "this is a slap on the wrist because they are well connected". If you were the FTC, what would you do to Facebook in this case, how would it be supported in law and what long term change for the better would your action create? Privacy is a civil good but it is a fine line to walk indeed to punish an innovator during a recession. Where's the happy medi…

The problem here is the personal information is being voluntarily given to Facebook. And the FTC can do nothing about that.

As far as I can tell, most people using FB are trying to communicate with their friends (as they previously did via letter, telephone and email), not broadcast every personal detail and thought to potentially any person or organization connected to the web.

Alas they are not well informed that by sending all their communications through Zuckerberg's website, this is in effect what they are doing.

That lack of understanding is something the FTC can address.

So to comply with the FTC's requests, FB will make more disclosures.

But the problem remains. FB, whether intentionally or not, is receiving far too much private information and private conversation, and it's all being channeled over the web.

Re: Facebook settles with FTC, under privacy watch for 20 years

#44

Post by jnorthrop »

Silhouette wrote: post #30
jnorthrop wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sentence: "including giving consumers clear and prominent notice and obtaining consumers' express consent before their information is shared beyond the privacy settings they have established" was the killer to me. It forces FB to much more transparent about what it does with data and could have a significant shift in its revenue model.

The trouble is, it only "forces" Facebook to do anything if there will be meaningful sanctions if they don't. They've just been found, in a formal investigation, to have broken numerous fundamental privacy laws across several continents, and been punished with... absolutely nothing, as far as I can tell. All this has done is teach them that they are above the law and should feel free to continue doing whatever they l…

With this decision they are subject to 20 years of audits. It's not like they got off with just a warning.

Re: Facebook settles with FTC, under privacy watch for 20 years

#45

Post by daed »

johnnyg wrote: post #18

Many have posted to this thread with complaints that boil down to "this is a slap on the wrist because they are well connected". If you were the FTC, what would you do to Facebook in this case, how would it be supported in law and what long term change for the better would your action create? Privacy is a civil good but it is a fine line to walk indeed to punish an innovator during a recession. Where's the happy medi…

It's likely that few HNers have a strong enough grasp of the various laws to state how they would pursue Facebook based on law, but all of us have a sense of justice. Whether or not the two coincide is a different discussion.

My happy medium, based on my own sense of justice: give Facebook a year to implement systems that actually protect users' privacy (what that would entail is yet another discussion). If they don't comply, hit them with a hefty fine. We get our privacy, Facebook gets to keep its money - some of which was earned by neglecting our privacy.

Re: Facebook settles with FTC, under privacy watch for 20 years

#46

Post by JonnieCache »

daenz wrote: post #38
jellicle wrote: post #15

So the penalty for ongoing repeated lies and fraud is.... nothing. Zero. The FTC has investigated, and the settlement is zero money and zero penalties. Not one dollar. Whew! I'm glad they were punished! They won't do THAT again! The U.S. is really in late-stage empire breakdown. I don't think there is any significant enforcement of any laws whatsoever against companies and people that are reasonably well connected. T…

> The only thing keeping the society from total breakdown is inertia. I know, society is breaking down, kids are getting more disrespectful, things are more expensive, the end of the world is upon us, etc :) You taking your lifetime to come to a realization about the state of the world does not make the realization less true before you had it. It's a memory glitch. Jump back 100 years, it's the same shit.

>Jump back 100 years, it's the same shit.

Yep. Jump back 100 years, and you're in the breakdown of the British empire. And look what we became, a pointless, miserable lame-duck nation utterly yoked to the next empire that rose after us, the USA.

Now you guys are gonna be yoked to the next empire, China.

Have fun with that!

I'll maybe catch you on a beach in Brazil, where hopefully things will be cool. Fingers crossed.

Re: Facebook settles with FTC, under privacy watch for 20 years

#47

Post by rhizome »

tokenadult wrote: post #27
jellicle wrote: post #15

So the penalty for ongoing repeated lies and fraud is.... nothing. Zero. The FTC has investigated, and the settlement is zero money and zero penalties. Not one dollar. Whew! I'm glad they were punished! They won't do THAT again! The U.S. is really in late-stage empire breakdown. I don't think there is any significant enforcement of any laws whatsoever against companies and people that are reasonably well connected. T…

On what legal basis would you expect a financial penalty for a free, voluntary-participation online service that did the things that the FTC found that Facebook did? What does the law on the subject give the FTC authority to do?

The law has long been castrated on your points. The legal basis would be, of course, that private information is property, but that one doesn't exist in this country (yet?).

Re: Facebook settles with FTC, under privacy watch for 20 years

#48

Post by freehunter »

marquis wrote: post #34
freehunter wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My family had a major falling out with my father, to the point where myself and my sister had a restraining order against him when I was 7 and she was 9. I haven't seen him or talked to him in 16 years. After Facebook deleted my privacy settings, I had a message from him sitting in my inbox the next day. My sister called me, crying, because she had gotten the same message. Both of our accounts were previously unsearc…

I would donate to your ACLU legal action against FB. I am consistently editing myself on FB, even in private groups, because of a sinking suspicion that with a flick-of-a-switch it can all be public.

I'm not sure that any laws were broken. It's not like we kept the restraining order active for 16 years, and his message wasn't really harassment, more like attempted atonement. At any rate, I do wish companies had to be held to their own site rules, legally. If Pystar break's Apple's TOS they get sued out of business, but if Facebook breaks their privacy settings they get a slap on the wrist from the FTC.

Re: Facebook settles with FTC, under privacy watch for 20 years

#49

Post by rhizome »

JonnieCache wrote: post #46
daenz wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only thing keeping the society from total breakdown is inertia. I know, society is breaking down, kids are getting more disrespectful, things are more expensive, the end of the world is upon us, etc :) You taking your lifetime to come to a realization about the state of the world does not make the realization less true before you had it. It's a memory glitch. Jump back 100 years, it's the same shit.

>Jump back 100 years, it's the same shit. Yep. Jump back 100 years, and you're in the breakdown of the British empire. And look what we became, a pointless, miserable lame-duck nation utterly yoked to the next empire that rose after us, the USA. Now you guys are gonna be yoked to the next empire, China. Have fun with that! I'll maybe catch you on a beach in Brazil, where hopefully things will be cool. Fingers crossed…

The movie "Gosford Park" is a well-covered instance of this state of affairs.

Re: Facebook settles with FTC, under privacy watch for 20 years

#50

Post by dreamdu5t »

Bud wrote: post #42
dreamdu5t wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Privacy policies are not binding agreements or contracts. Facebook didn't lie. They simply don't have to follow their privacy policy exactly, since it's not a binding agreement.

No. They lied. The fact that there was, according to you, no binding contract, has no bearing on the question of whether they lied or not. They did lie. Case closed.

Even if you accept it was a lie, it's not fraud.

Facebook "lies" like Subway "lies" about losing weight by eating there.

You're omitting the fact that Facebook has always stated they may change what they do with your information in the future.

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