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Plastic might be making us obese

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Plastic might be making us obese

#41

Post by CharlieDigital »

scarmig wrote: post #21
CharlieDigital wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> fails to explain why people eat more calories now than they did before Wouldn't this also intuitively be related to the fact that a calorie today is much, much "cheaper" (in terms of labor required to acquire the calorie for both the producer and the consumer) than a calorie was even 100 years ago due to advancements in agriculture and distribution?

To an extent, but we're 10x richer than we were in 1900; we do not eat 10x as many calories. And it's poor people who eat more calories now, not rich people.

> it's poor people who eat more calories now, not rich people

That's my point; if you look at a map of obesity rates in the US overlaid with a map of poverty, there's a very strong correlation.

The cheap access to calories today makes it easier to overconsume. In the past, the high cost of calories meant that only the wealthy could really ever become obese (outside of genetic factors).

Re: Plastic might be making us obese

#43

Post by sithadmin »

psychphysic wrote: post #26
sithadmin wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'an appetite suppressant' is really underselling liraglutide. It also corrects insulin resistance, which accounts for some degree of it's effectiveness as a weight loss aid beyond it's effects on slowing the GI tract. GLP-1 agonists are truly an amazing class of drugs. It's absolutely absurd that they're generally not covered by insurance for non-diabetics, even when they yield such obvious benefits for obese people.

Within the UK they remain restricted too. However, more and more at target populations i.e. obesity + diabetes/obesity related secondary condition or even at risk for diabetes i.e. ethnicity based. Are being offered these treatments. It really will be a new age for obese patients. The first and exercise tactic is a lost battle, ideally we'd be bringing up a generation that can manage their weight but we've failed at…

As a non-diabetic (though demonstrably insulin resistant and leptin resistant), I've found metformin's gastro side effects and impact on blood glucose levels to be annoyingly unpredictable. Metformin also causes a noticeable drop in testosterone that can be especially counterproductive for men if weight loss/maintenance is a goal and one already has relatively low baseline testosterone levels.

Re: Plastic might be making us obese

#44

Post by sithadmin »

omginternets wrote: post #23
sithadmin wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'an appetite suppressant' is really underselling liraglutide. It also corrects insulin resistance, which accounts for some degree of it's effectiveness as a weight loss aid beyond it's effects on slowing the GI tract. GLP-1 agonists are truly an amazing class of drugs. It's absolutely absurd that they're generally not covered by insurance for non-diabetics, even when they yield such obvious benefits for obese people.

>It also corrects insulin resistance Is liraglutide doing that directly, or is it mediated by people eating less sugar?

Directly. It stimulates insulin release from the pacreas.

Re: Plastic might be making us obese

#46

Post by mellavora »

So something else I wonder. Over the last 50-90 years we've selectively bred our entire food chain to prioritize rapid growth, then pack it full of growth hormones to accelerate this.

My dad decided to raise chickens back in the 80's. The broiler hens grew so fast that they broke their legs, and this was when fed on our kitchen waste (i.e. no growth hormones).

I do wonder how much of this spills over into human obesity; if everything you eat comes from a plant or animal which is hyperoptimizing for unhealthy growth rates, what does that do to the human body?

And if you are looking for a biological mechanism, it might be related to epigenetics. Not saying it is so, but am saying that a biological link is not a-priori impossible.

Re: Plastic might be making us obese

#47

Post by PartiallyTyped »

mellavora wrote: post #46

So something else I wonder. Over the last 50-90 years we've selectively bred our entire food chain to prioritize rapid growth, then pack it full of growth hormones to accelerate this. My dad decided to raise chickens back in the 80's. The broiler hens grew so fast that they broke their legs, and this was when fed on our kitchen waste (i.e. no growth hormones). I do wonder how much of this spills over into human obesi…

> And if you are looking for a biological mechanism, it might be related to epigenetics

Very unlikely as afaik everything non parasitic gets broken down by our saliva and stomach acids.

Re: Plastic might be making us obese

#48

Post by elil17 »

slothtrop wrote: post #35
elil17 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just saying "cheeseburgers" or "calories in, calories out" fails to explain why people eat more calories now than they did before. There is a vague, and I think very unhelpful, sense in society today that this is some sort of mass moral failing. In reality there are a few factors that could, alone or in combination, explain this change in average behavior. The most convincing to me: chemicals could be messing with ou…

> Just saying "cheeseburgers" or "calories in, calories out" fails to explain why people eat more calories now than they did before. Junk foods at high-availability, low cost, offering low-to-zero satiety per-calorie, and habit-forming addictive potential. The answer is pretty much in your sentence. Add to the fact, eating well on a budget requires you to prepare food at home. Lots of pressures funnel people to obesi…

Sure, I think that's a very plausible explanation. It also points to specific, testable policy changes. For example, a government could build a low cost (subsidized), healthy competitor to fast food. Alternatively, a government could implement a comprehensive "sin tax" scheme on "low quality" calories coupled with expanded food stamps (to ensure the poorest people can afford healthy alternatives). Governments could even go into food desserts and open health-focused grocery stores. We could see if low cost/low quality calories are the issue via a legislative experiment.

Re: Plastic might be making us obese

#49

Post by themitigating »

kragen wrote: post #38

My guess is that obesogens are to blame, but that they're in food, not plastics. This is because people on weirdo diets (vegans, carnivore, ultra low fat) all lose weight and keep it off, even when they are using the same amount of plastic as everyone else. The common denominator is that they stopped eating industrially manufactured food. I am no expert in the area, just wondering what the hell is going on.

"Weirdo" diets? Why make such an insulating simplistic judgment when discussing diets?

Re: Plastic might be making us obese

#50

Post by sithadmin »

dstick wrote: post #25
CJefferson wrote: post #8

I've recently started taking 'liraglutide', which is an appetite suppressant. I haven't been taking it that long, but so far it's amazing -- I eat a balanced meal with an approriate amount of calories in it, and then I am full, and don't want to eat any more. Sometimes I snack and eat a biscuit, but then I don't feel any need to eat a second biscuit. I'm not saying this is a long-term solution for me, or people in ge…

Interesting. Does that help with all forms of caloric intake? Alcoholic / sugar beverages included?

In general, yes, but beverage intake results can vary a lot based on behavioral factors. If one frequently drinks sugary beverages or even alcohol to attempt to sate a hunger drive (e. g., due to leptin resistance), it could dramatically reduce intake of those things. But if intake of those beverages are driven by other factors such as poor judgement in beverage selection for hydration or alcoholism, it's not likely going to result in much of a change.

As far as medical solutions go, something like naltrexone is probably a better fit for discouraging unhealthy food/beverage selection, especially (but not necessarily) when paired with bupropion. The combo dramatically blunts the positive neurochemical effects of eating artificially sweet/salty/fat foods + drinking alcohol (and nearly eliminates the perceptible benefits of alcohol as well - it's a very surreal experience).

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