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So you want to be a writer?

poets.org

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Re: So you want to be a writer?

#41

Post by isaacfrond »

Fun fact. Did you know that his posthumous work has been seriously altered by his editior?

https://mjpbooks.com/blog/the-senseless-tragic-rape-of-charl...

from the article: In the posthumous collections, Black Sparrow publisher John Martin has made changes to the majority of Bukowski’s poems. Damaging changes that run counter to just about everything Bukowski represented. Wholesale removal of references to drinking, drugs, sex and madness. Changes that completely alter the meaning of the manuscripts. Changes that don’t even begin to make sense. It feels like nothing short of gleeful, unrepentant vandalism and destruction.

Re: So you want to be a writer?

#42

Post by badpun »

leg100 wrote: post #37
goto11 wrote: post #14

Apparently Douglas Adams found it very difficult to write. According to the biography by Neil Gaiman it was almost painful for him, every book or manuscript a chore. I'm happy he didn't follow the advice from Bukowski to just give up! Bukowskis poem seem to represent the romantic idea that art is divinely inspired and the artist is just a vessel. Maybe it really felt like that for Bokowski, while for others writing i…

I don't think Bukowski did find it easy. He's saying he could only write poetry for its own sake and for no other motivation whatsoever and reaching that point is hard and may never come but realizing this essential point saves you a lot of time and crap poetry!

He said that writing poetry is easy, "it just pours out of him", but writing prose is hard work, essentially "like working in a factory". He didn't like that very much, but eventually wrote more prose when he got older - perhaps eventually took a liking to longer projects which don't produce immediate gratification.

Re: So you want to be a writer?

#43

Post by fedeb95 »

isaacfrond wrote: post #41

Fun fact. Did you know that his posthumous work has been seriously altered by his editior? https://mjpbooks.com/blog/the-senseless-tragic-rape-of-charl... from the article: In the posthumous collections, Black Sparrow publisher John Martin has made changes to the majority of Bukowski’s poems. Damaging changes that run counter to just about everything Bukowski represented. Wholesale removal of references to drinking,…

Sadly I know, I've read Alex De Britto talk about it and his editions should be more faithful to the original. Anyway there are manuscripts at https://bukowski.net/

Re: So you want to be a writer?

#44

Post by antirez »

I don't know about poetry, but prose? After the first draft, where there is some of this romantic instinct of writing by inspiration, the rest is hard work for months or years, more similar to finding bugs in a program than a divine muse driving you to write a masterpiece. Related in my blog: http://antirez.com/news/136

Re: So you want to be a writer?

#45

Post by PartiallyTyped »

ai_ia wrote: post #20

Bukowski was an eccentric guy and often he used to contradict himself. This poem seems to encompass his life philosophy and which also happens to be written on his tombstone in just two words: "Don't try" However, in his another poem, Roll the Dice, he presents something entirely different outlook on the subject of trying. And this is a poem I really admire. ROLL THE DICE ------------- If you’re going to try, go all…

"Don't try" is misinterpreted to mean "don't bother" when it should be interpreted as "Do or do not, there's no try", and "If you __have__ to try, don't do it all".

Re: So you want to be a writer?

#46

Post by coldtea »

lelag wrote: post #32
coldtea wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, in his another poem, Roll the Dice, he presents something entirely different outlook on the subject of trying. Is it a different outlook? I think the "don't try" in the gravestone you mention refers to the same concept, or as Yoda put it "Do or Do not. Do not try". "Don't try" to me reads not like "Don't do anything daring" (avoid trying stuff) but instead "Do things fully, don't just dip your toes in" (co…

I thought I heard that line of thinking from somewhere. > "No. Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try" Master Yoda in The Empire Strikes Back.

Yoda also referenced by name in my comment :)

Re: So you want to be a writer?

#47

Post by simonebrunozzi »

> if you have to sit for hours

> staring at your computer screen

> or hunched over your

> typewriter

> searching for words,

> don't do it.

I don't claim to BE a writer, but I think I had moments of good writing in my life, and I like writing a lot (I wrote two - largely unsuccessful, of course - novels, two technical books, and tons of other stuff), and I completely disagree with this. And for most of the rest of the poem.

Re: So you want to be a writer?

#48

Post by mhaberl »

goto11 wrote: post #14

Apparently Douglas Adams found it very difficult to write. According to the biography by Neil Gaiman it was almost painful for him, every book or manuscript a chore. I'm happy he didn't follow the advice from Bukowski to just give up! Bukowskis poem seem to represent the romantic idea that art is divinely inspired and the artist is just a vessel. Maybe it really felt like that for Bokowski, while for others writing i…

> romantic idea that art is divinely inspired

I certainly believe that is true.

When I do my best work (programming, not poetry) I feel like I was inspired. I always get inspired in the same way, by doing the hard work for as long as it takes, and that usually feels like torture.

Perhaps Adams and Bukowski use a simmilar method to each other, but is just presented differently.

> Charles Bukowski:

> if you have to sit for hours staring at your computer screen or hunched over your typewriter searching for words, don't do it.

> if it's hard work just thinking about doing it

I read this as "if you don't want to do it, then don't", not as "If it is hard work then don't do it". Thinking about doing it, and doing it are different things.

I really don't believe that any world class writer (or world class anything) got inspired before doing the hard work first. That is a romantic idea, not the inspiration itself.

Re: So you want to be a writer?

#49

Post by JackFr »

bazoom42 wrote: post #21
tengbretson wrote: post #12

Charles Bukowski is shit. There, I wrote it.

So brave! Seriously, that is basically the brand he built his career on. If you really wanted to be mean, you would say “Bukowski is really a very nice guy, nothing at all like the low-life he writes about”.

It’s not about being mean. It’s the poems. They’re not good poems.

Re: So you want to be a writer?

#50

Post by agumonkey »

badpun wrote: post #40
agumonkey wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's often a leap of faith in important matters. I believe both his views don't try or all the way are trying to convey that. Basically don't waste time going mild. But truth is, he's not telling the whole story. First full throttle may make you blind. Second there are times you can't go all in on one shot (lack of resources, risk of death, or simply not knowing which path). You have to chunk your progress. Still…

> Second there are times you can't go all in on one shot (lack of resources, risk of death, or simply not knowing which path). You have to chunk your progress. I believe his philosophy was to ignore those issues (lack of resources, risk of death), because if you start thinking about them, you'll never venture out, but instead spend your whole life preparing.

I guess we lost that sense in modern life. But we used to be more acquainted to risks and venture before. Nowadays we can't think about risks precisely because we don't know our limits.
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