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Being an effective environmentalist can often feel like being a bad one

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Re: Being an effective environmentalist can often feel like being a bad one

#41
post #4

Don‘t think about microwave vs. stove. Instead, do the following: 1. stop buying meat 2. stop eating meat 3. stop buying dairy-based products 4. stop eating dairy-based products 5. stop eating eggs, honey, fish 6. use public transport, if possible 7. don‘t fly, if possible Congrats, you now are an environmentalist.

Congrats, you are actually just an inconsequential stooge. Environmental corruption and depletion is not a consumer problem, at least not directly. It is a product of industrial production processes. Eat meat, eat dairy, preserve your health and your brain in doing so, and find ways to create industry that is clean, that would make you an environmentalist... maybe... if you successfully altered the system. Stop prete…

I think you have a valid point, but I'm not sure it's made effectively, which I think is why you got downvotes.

An example might help: Elon Musk is not, AFAIK, vegan. But he's done a lot to popularize electric cars, having far more impact than he could by changing his diet. Likewise, the Beyond meat people have probably done a lot more to reduce meat consumption than they could ever outweigh by eating steak every meal for the rest of their lives. (I am actually not clear on the net environmental benefit of using gas vs. making more batteries, but let's say for the sake of argument that electric cars are an environmental benefit, since it's just an example.)

Re: Being an effective environmentalist can often feel like being a bad one

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the way, this is exactly what a climate change denier would write, except that that would talk about collapsing the economy if we focused too much on reducing carbon emissions. The truth is reducing CO2 emissions is an emergency, and any other environmental considerations other than doing that is just arguing about deck chairs on the Titanic. At this point, we would have been in a much better position if the Green…

The emergency was 50 years ago.

And today and 50 years from now and very likely at least another 100 years beyond that. Prior inaction does not mean it's over. We don't get the luxury of having a "oh well we lost this round" mentality.

Re: Being an effective environmentalist can often feel like being a bad one

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is to reuse for ages a tough plastic bag rather than use single use bags.

I have 5 reusable bags that I've used for a few years. That means I've used them maybe 100 times. Now they're starting to fall apart, and soon I'll need new ones. I wonder, since they're much heavier and clearly use a lot more plastic, whether I would have used less plastic with the disposable ones.

Nobody does napkin math anymore? One use bag is about 2-10 grams of plastic. 100x that is 200 grams to 1kg.

Re: Being an effective environmentalist can often feel like being a bad one

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would stop buying honey from beekeepers?

Also skeptical of the honey thing. Honeybees produce honey which is a valuable product on its own, but honeybees are also distinguished from other bee species by their massive colonies (colonies are the groups of bees, hives are where they live). This is why there is an industry that trucks honeybee colonies/hives around the country to pollinate whichever crops are in season. This is to the detriment of whichever pol…

So the problem is not honey/bees, its driving them around in a truck.

Re: Being an effective environmentalist can often feel like being a bad one

#45
post #4

Don‘t think about microwave vs. stove. Instead, do the following: 1. stop buying meat 2. stop eating meat 3. stop buying dairy-based products 4. stop eating dairy-based products 5. stop eating eggs, honey, fish 6. use public transport, if possible 7. don‘t fly, if possible Congrats, you now are an environmentalist.

[deleted]

Re: Being an effective environmentalist can often feel like being a bad one

#46
post #4

Don‘t think about microwave vs. stove. Instead, do the following: 1. stop buying meat 2. stop eating meat 3. stop buying dairy-based products 4. stop eating dairy-based products 5. stop eating eggs, honey, fish 6. use public transport, if possible 7. don‘t fly, if possible Congrats, you now are an environmentalist.

Ergo, be poor?

Re: Being an effective environmentalist can often feel like being a bad one

#47
post #4

Don‘t think about microwave vs. stove. Instead, do the following: 1. stop buying meat 2. stop eating meat 3. stop buying dairy-based products 4. stop eating dairy-based products 5. stop eating eggs, honey, fish 6. use public transport, if possible 7. don‘t fly, if possible Congrats, you now are an environmentalist.

How about: 0. Make it your goal to participate in at least one climate rally next year. That's enough for you to be an environmentalist.

Re: Being an effective environmentalist can often feel like being a bad one

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is to reuse for ages a tough plastic bag rather than use single use bags.

I have 5 reusable bags that I've used for a few years. That means I've used them maybe 100 times. Now they're starting to fall apart, and soon I'll need new ones. I wonder, since they're much heavier and clearly use a lot more plastic, whether I would have used less plastic with the disposable ones.

The breakeven point seems to be around 50-100 uses depending on the exact kind of reusable bag, so you’re probably winning: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/grocery-bag-environmental...

Re: Being an effective environmentalist can often feel like being a bad one

#49
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have 5 reusable bags that I've used for a few years. That means I've used them maybe 100 times. Now they're starting to fall apart, and soon I'll need new ones. I wonder, since they're much heavier and clearly use a lot more plastic, whether I would have used less plastic with the disposable ones.

Nobody does napkin math anymore? One use bag is about 2-10 grams of plastic. 100x that is 200 grams to 1kg.

The math is easy, but I don't have a tiny scale or specs on the weight of either bags. Where did you get 2-10 grams?

Re: Being an effective environmentalist can often feel like being a bad one

#50
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congrats, you are actually just an inconsequential stooge. Environmental corruption and depletion is not a consumer problem, at least not directly. It is a product of industrial production processes. Eat meat, eat dairy, preserve your health and your brain in doing so, and find ways to create industry that is clean, that would make you an environmentalist... maybe... if you successfully altered the system. Stop prete…

I think you have a valid point, but I'm not sure it's made effectively, which I think is why you got downvotes. An example might help: Elon Musk is not, AFAIK, vegan. But he's done a lot to popularize electric cars, having far more impact than he could by changing his diet. Likewise, the Beyond meat people have probably done a lot more to reduce meat consumption than they could ever outweigh by eating steak every mea…

You are probably right. I didn't sleep well and I'm tired and the smarmy "one-weird-trick" vibe of the post I replied to just annoyed me . I will own the "not made effectively" indictment.
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