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Nano-nonsense: 25 years of charlatanry (2010)

scottlocklin.wordpress.com

41–50 of 62 posts

Re: Nano-nonsense: 25 years of charlatanry (2010)

#41
> We don’t even have micromachines. Mechanical objects on microscales do not exist... I have already worked for a “millitech” company which was going to use tiny accelerometers to do sensing stuff in your cell phone.

I don't see any definition by which MEMS sensors are not 'micromachines'.

Re: Nano-nonsense: 25 years of charlatanry (2010)

#42

> We don’t even have micromachines. Mechanical objects on microscales do not exist. Huh? Aren’t micromirror devices made of millions of microscale mechanical objects? The first DMD page that came up for me is a TI DLP4500, which has about an 11mm diagonal and is about 1000 mirrors wide, putting the individual mirrors, and their tiny hinges at around 10 microns. What definition of “microscale” is the author using? Edi…

MEMS [1] is, I believe, the name you're looking for. Lots of cool detail on the Wiki page.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microelectromechanical_syste...

Re: Nano-nonsense: 25 years of charlatanry (2010)

#43
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is a weird argument and unnecessary for the main target of the article. There were plenty of successful microactuators, sensors, full microrobots, etc even when this article was written (2010).

Yeah, I agree that it’s tangential to the main point. Still, it makes me question the author’s credibility on the subject. If you’re claiming something won’t exist, and you’re overlooking a large amount of technology that does exist, I can’t help but think that you might have overlooked something in your assessment of the state of the art.

[deleted]

Re: Nano-nonsense: 25 years of charlatanry (2010)

#44
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is a weird argument and unnecessary for the main target of the article. There were plenty of successful microactuators, sensors, full microrobots, etc even when this article was written (2010).

Yeah, I agree that it’s tangential to the main point. Still, it makes me question the author’s credibility on the subject. If you’re claiming something won’t exist, and you’re overlooking a large amount of technology that does exist, I can’t help but think that you might have overlooked something in your assessment of the state of the art.

It is obvious that the author is referring to the sort of technology that Drexler and company were positing - a technology explicitly claimed to be so unlike anything then- (and now) realized that it would be radically transformative. At the time of writing, nothing even approaching a proof-of-concept existed (DMD devices certainly are not that), and this has not changed in the decade+ since.

You can, of course, suppose that the author has overlooked something, but there are others who have equally - and perhaps more carefully, by your standard - made the same points, such as Richard Smalley, who is quoted here.

Re: Nano-nonsense: 25 years of charlatanry (2010)

#45
post #42

> We don’t even have micromachines. Mechanical objects on microscales do not exist. Huh? Aren’t micromirror devices made of millions of microscale mechanical objects? The first DMD page that came up for me is a TI DLP4500, which has about an 11mm diagonal and is about 1000 mirrors wide, putting the individual mirrors, and their tiny hinges at around 10 microns. What definition of “microscale” is the author using? Edi…

MEMS [1] is, I believe, the name you're looking for. Lots of cool detail on the Wiki page. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microelectromechanical_syste...

Ah yes. DMDs were just the example that immediately popped into my mind, probably because they were one of the first that I read about in any depth.

Re: Nano-nonsense: 25 years of charlatanry (2010)

#46

> Really “material science” was a sort of fancy label for the chemistry of things we use to build other things. Wrong, much of what material scientists do relate to the physical properties of the materials. I know a few material scientists, and while they do have a small part of the lab that looks pretty much like a chemistry lab, most of their methods and goals differ from what happens in a typical chemistry lab.

They're adjacent fields and get into things like polymers and there's a fair bit of overlap. But metallurgy, for example, deals with a lot of things that chemistry mostly doesn't related to mechanical properties at different size scaales for example.

Re: Nano-nonsense: 25 years of charlatanry (2010)

#47
This 'nonsense' seems a lot more feasible now. We are now able to direct the formation of covalent bonds between two molecules using an atomic force microscope to position said molecules close to each other such that a reaction occurs in the desired location[0]. They show how NaCl films may present a solution the fat/sticky finger problem.

It's still a long way from drexlerian nanotech, but being unable to controllably form covalent bonds through positioning was one of the big arguments against drexlerian nanotech.

[0]https://www.nature.com/articles/s41557-021-00773-4

Re: Nano-nonsense: 25 years of charlatanry (2010)

#48
Nanotechnology was actually envisioned by Richard Feynmann in his famed 1959 lecture "there's plenty of room at the bottom".

I don't presume anyone would call out Feynmann for not knowing his physics. He even won a nobel prize for it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There%27s_Plenty_of_Room_at_th...

Re: Nano-nonsense: 25 years of charlatanry (2010)

#49
My freshman year of undergrad I took a nanoscience course as an elective. Through that, i found out that the department was in the final stages of creating a Nanoscience major, and since the prerequisites lined up with my primary major (engineering) I decided to go for a double major.

If I could do it over, I would stay away. The subject matter was fascinating, but was also a discontinuous hodgepodge of nano-related topics from physics, chemistry, and biology.

Things may become more organized as the program matures, but looking back it felt more like a 4 year exploratory to prep for grad school than a Bachelor of Science degree.

Re: Nano-nonsense: 25 years of charlatanry (2010)

#50
post #23
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that a counterargument to Drexlerism? The fact that it already exists would seem to make it more likely that human engineering will leverage it.

Yeah but the human engineering you are looking for is mostly called biotech. I think the argument is that there just isn’t a novel field here. Drexler tried to carve one out where none exists to make himself and his followers look like they invented something when they did not. Nanotech is really just gloss on biology, materials engineering, or chemistry, all of which are well aware of quantum scale effects and use t…

Biology has a pretty limited set of building blocks to work with.

Drexler specifically wanted assemblers that could work with aluminum and that could do some extra stuff with carbon that biology can't do.

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