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D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

washingtonian.com

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Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#41

Post by decafninja »

ookblah wrote: post #20

US suffers from an additional culture problem that doesn't allow us to have nice public things. Every public restroom in NYC I can think of outside of Bryant Park ends up turning into a shithole, literally.

What keeps the Bryant Park restrooms clean? What's different about it? I've never actually used it.

The Port Authority bus terminal bathrooms recently had a full renovation. It was nice enough for a little while, but it didn't take long for it to become a shithole. The money spent to clean it up and renovate it turned to shit.

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#42

Post by bigthymer »

solatic wrote: post #36
teddyh wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people think that a dictatorship is OK as long as the trains all run on time. The right way to solve the problem is not to harden the gatekeeping, but to improve society so that gatekeeping becomes unnecessary. But that’s hard, and has no obvious point where someone can extract money.

> gatekeeping becomes unnecessary This is pure fantasy. Society will always need prisons. Sure, there is much that society can and ought to do in order to reduce what may be judged as tragic or unnecessary incarcerations, but the incarceration rate will never be literally zero. Having prisons doesn't make society a "dictatorship".

> Society will always need prisons

Not every society has needed prisons, especially smaller, tribal ones. Maybe our complex, global one currently does but I don't think it is a hard requirement.

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#43

Post by DubiousPusher »

ravel-bar-foo wrote: post #23
teddyh wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people think that a dictatorship is OK as long as the trains all run on time. The right way to solve the problem is not to harden the gatekeeping, but to improve society so that gatekeeping becomes unnecessary. But that’s hard, and has no obvious point where someone can extract money.

What are the options to "improve society" so people don't make a mess in shared bathrooms? PSAs? Public shaming? Collateral put down to use bathrooms? Do you have any better and specific ideas? I can't think of much more gentle and more likely to motivate people to change behavior than a public accountability system, although it is regrettable that it must be run through a for-profit entity and look like a social cre…

Not worrying about it and accepting that sometimes life is gross?

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#44

Post by crazygringo »

bigthymer wrote: post #42
solatic wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> gatekeeping becomes unnecessary This is pure fantasy. Society will always need prisons. Sure, there is much that society can and ought to do in order to reduce what may be judged as tragic or unnecessary incarcerations, but the incarceration rate will never be literally zero. Having prisons doesn't make society a "dictatorship".

> Society will always need prisons Not every society has needed prisons, especially smaller, tribal ones. Maybe our complex, global one currently does but I don't think it is a hard requirement.

Smaller tribal societies exiled you and you died. Or they just killed you.

Prisons are an improvement over that.

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#45

Post by coffee_beqn »

xyzzy123 wrote: post #15
bparsons wrote: post #5

Every six months, some startup guy invents public transit, or some other amenity that has existed for over a 100 years.

A lot of amenities "worked" before because of aggressive social norm enforcement. For example, people experiencing persistent mental health issues would literally be locked up "for the common good". I think what we are seeing is people trying to use technology to replace earlier (primarily social) technologies of control like shaming, religious instruction, tighter communities, aggressive policing etc. It's not the a…

> For example, people experiencing persistent mental health issues would literally be locked up "for the common good".

I don’t know that we’re doing much better now. Is it so great that now the same people spend a few decades self-medicating and living like rats on the streets because they can’t escape their inner demons without extremely intense intervention?

Do people really look at a person having a violent psychotic breakdown for the 10th time this year in the street and pat society on the back that at least he’s not in a mental institution..

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#46

Post by DubiousPusher »

If it can be a law to require you to use the bathroom in a specific way, the collective should provide a way to comply with the law. Anything else is unjust.

Being upset that people dirty public restrooms, shoot up in them or over occupy them is not a justification for creating a situation which takes people's freedom away.

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#47

Post by DubiousPusher »

ookblah wrote: post #20

US suffers from an additional culture problem that doesn't allow us to have nice public things. Every public restroom in NYC I can think of outside of Bryant Park ends up turning into a shithole, literally.

Why do they need to be nice? It's a place to shit. I get it. We all like a dandified street but people's right to a place to do what they biologically have to do trumps anyone's right to aesthetic purity, IMO.

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#48

Post by imgabe »

DubiousPusher wrote: post #46

If it can be a law to require you to use the bathroom in a specific way, the collective should provide a way to comply with the law. Anything else is unjust. Being upset that people dirty public restrooms, shoot up in them or over occupy them is not a justification for creating a situation which takes people's freedom away.

What law? There is no law requiring anyone to use these restrooms. This is a private company making restrooms available under specific conditions.

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#49

Post by DubiousPusher »

imgabe wrote: post #48
DubiousPusher wrote: post #46

If it can be a law to require you to use the bathroom in a specific way, the collective should provide a way to comply with the law. Anything else is unjust. Being upset that people dirty public restrooms, shoot up in them or over occupy them is not a justification for creating a situation which takes people's freedom away.

What law? There is no law requiring anyone to use these restrooms. This is a private company making restrooms available under specific conditions.

It is illegal in most places to defecate or urinate in public, or really anywhere other than a toilet. This company shouldn't need to exist. Facilities should be provided by the government if they wish to have such a law in place.

This and several other laws create a situation in America where it is a crime to be destitute.

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#50

Post by eru »

rdtwo wrote: post #34
eru wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paid public toilets are banned in large parts of the US.

Yeah it’s unfortunate, post covid a lot of previously accessible bathrooms are no longer available and with no public options is a huge inconvenience

Yes. But the silly bans on paid toilets stem from the 1970s.

See eg https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-19/why-the-u...

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