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Experts troubled by Canada’s euthanasia laws

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Re: Experts troubled by Canada’s euthanasia laws

#41

You can always pick an extreme example of drooling, pants-shitting, etc. etc. But the problem is that "option to die" usually morphs into "duty to die" and then into "involuntarily dying."

Is involuntary dying really worse than involuntary living? Personally I’d much rather risk the former than the latter.

Re: Experts troubled by Canada’s euthanasia laws

#42

> The law was later amended to allow people who are not terminally ill to choose death, significantly broadening the number of eligible people. Critics say that change removed a key safeguard aimed at protecting people with potentially years or decades of life left. Here's the thing. If I want to die at 80 because I don't want to live past that point, that is my choice. Even if I have no "illness". If I don't want to…

Many people say this when they’re young. Almost no one goes through with it. Maybe the drooling isn’t as bad as you think.

Re: Experts troubled by Canada’s euthanasia laws

#43
post #3

> prompting doctors and health workers to suggest the procedure to those who might not otherwise consider it. Please tell me there isn't a financial incentive behind this. The only thing worse than doctors suggesting opioids to those who might not otherwise consider it is doctors suggesting death to those who might not otherwise consider it.

Maybe it's just me, but if a stranger can talk you into killing yourself - what the fuck else can a stranger talk you into doing? Maybe people need to take some responsibility, instead of arguing the existence of Dr Evils in medicine.

You mean people with dementia or other degenerative brain diseases, should just pull themselves by the bootstraps and take more responsibility and debate their best?

Re: Experts troubled by Canada’s euthanasia laws

#44
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a very hard time believing that doctors will be suggesting euthanasia to patients who might not otherwise consider it. There is no financial incentive behind it on a personal level for doctors, given Canada's one-payer medical system, and euthanasia is counter to many doctors' interpretation of the Hypocratic oath. You could argue that on a system-level there is an incentive to encourage euthanasia, since it c…

A one payer system doesn’t insulate doctors from personal incentives to cut costs. The details of compensation can easily encourage one time injections over long term care. Even if the injection is poison. I know for a fact that “bounty” type programs are used by Canadian public health authorities, and for-profit actors make money from them. I don’t know if this extends to long-term care scenarios, but there’s nothin…

Respectfully this just display ignorance on how doctors are compensated in Canada. They are paid by the act, meaning that "doing X" gives them money. Euthanizing someone is compensated as a single act so there really isn't an incentive to do it. Most doctors are actually refusing to do it because of their oath (and yes they can refuse).

Re: Experts troubled by Canada’s euthanasia laws

#45
Is there anything like a two-component drug, that you can get the parts of from two different sources, mix yourself, and kill yourself with in a humane way? In that case perhaps part A can be prescribed by one doctor, and part B by another, so no doctor is able to singlehandedly prescribe this lethal drug. I don't know if this solves anything, but it puts friction in they system, which I think is needed.

Re: Experts troubled by Canada’s euthanasia laws

#46
post #12

You can always pick an extreme example of drooling, pants-shitting, etc. etc. But the problem is that "option to die" usually morphs into "duty to die" and then into "involuntarily dying."

Does it now? Can you cite any examples?

Sure. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/23/three-netherla...

the very fact that a patient has to be, legally "experiencing unbearable suffering, with no prospect of improvement, and to have a voluntary, sustained wish to die" is ripe for abuse, as the article makes clear has already happened.

A euthanasia proponent said, "Whether things are clear for doctors is a difficult question, as unbearable suffering is different from one person to another."

Maybe the Netherlands: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/jan/18/death-on-demand... seems ideal to you. Not to me. Not even to a lot of Dutch doctors.

Re: Experts troubled by Canada’s euthanasia laws

#47
post #11

You can always pick an extreme example of drooling, pants-shitting, etc. etc. But the problem is that "option to die" usually morphs into "duty to die" and then into "involuntarily dying."

“Usually” is doing a metric shit-tonne of work there.

see above

Re: Experts troubled by Canada’s euthanasia laws

#48

> The law was later amended to allow people who are not terminally ill to choose death, significantly broadening the number of eligible people. Critics say that change removed a key safeguard aimed at protecting people with potentially years or decades of life left. Here's the thing. If I want to die at 80 because I don't want to live past that point, that is my choice. Even if I have no "illness". If I don't want to…

>If I want to die at 80 because I don't want to live past that point, that is my choice. I think most reasonable people can agree with this. It gets more complicated when its a depressed 20 year old saying it.

People here are talking about this as if it’s the suicide booth from Futurama. It’s not.

The overwhelming majority of cases are extensions of palliative care made by people of sound mind.

Re: Experts troubled by Canada’s euthanasia laws

#49
For some more context, in 2020 about 2.4% of all deaths (7,383 people) were euthanasia related. And the vast majority were over 60. Extracts:

“In 2017, 2,838 medically assisted deaths were reported by Health Canada, compared with 4,478 deaths in 2018. In 2019, there were 5,425 medically assisted deaths in Canada, accounting for 1.9% of all deaths. In 2020, this increased to 7,383 deaths (2.4% of all deaths in Canada)” [1]

And

“applicants were on average 74.8 years of age. People under 60 years of age make up 11.3% of all MAID applicants. ” [1]

So about 0.26% of all deaths in 2020 were under 60s euthanasia.

1. https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/220110/dq220...

Re: Experts troubled by Canada’s euthanasia laws

#50
post #26

I think reasonable people can agree that aborting an unborn baby that is conceived 1 day prior is not murder, but a fetus 1 day from birth is a human and killing it is murder. There is some point between 1 day and 9 months where killing the baby is immoral. Similarly, physician assisted suicide could make sense in some cases. However a chronically depressed patient that is annoying the doctor, I don't approve of offe…

[Upvoted despite significant disagreements, because the downvote button isn't a disagree button]
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