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Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

economist.com

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Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#41

Post by pochekailov »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #34
pochekailov wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an immigrant :). Banking on your family dying - this is like saying "I am a worthless loser". I want old generation to live eternally, and still afford housing.

If the old generation cannot work for eternity, what would be your solution to a declining labor participation rate?

Rejuvenation and life-extending technologies to keep labor energetic forever.

Industrial and maintenance automation for needing less labor.

Relying on next generation to fund your retirement is ok if you live modestly; but not ok if you live luxuriously.

Working person should not be doing worse than a non-working person; otherwise you have an extractive economy and social instability.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#42

Post by strikelaserclaw »

pochekailov wrote: post #10
mantas wrote: post #2

Not housing per-se, but concentrating too many jobs in few locations. Which causes issues with housing.

It is very good for productivity when many jobs are concentrated in one location. This unlocks the possibility for serendipitous connections. It is awesome when you can meet a founder, a leading engineer, an investor, a designer and a PR person in a coffee line, forming a new company before finishing your morning coffee. Talents concentrated in one place gives significant boost to their productivity. This is called a…

I'm not so sure about this, i believe the optimal curve for city population looks like the optimal stress response, after a certain level having more is just detrimental. There should be enough people where opportunities arise but no so much that your mind is too influenced by noise where you can't accurately make good decisions.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#43

Post by m12k »

strikelaserclaw wrote: post #33
throwaway22032 wrote: post #27

Our economic system is set up such that you either hit a bar at which you accumulate capital forever unless you make a mistake, or you're loss-making forever. Once you hit that bar, your job becomes buying up housing like it's a Monopoly board. As an individual you can either choose to win or lose this game. We're not going to change it, at least not within our lifetimes.

the fatal flaw in capitalism imo, a lot of wealth gets created which is good for everyone but eventually, a lot of that wealth also gets held by a smaller and smaller minority while the rest try to desperately compete over whatever is left over. After a certain point a certain portion of any new wealth created somehow trickles up to the capital owning class (think your VC's, fund owners, other rich investors), this c…

One the the core issues with capitalism IMO is that it struggles to function as a meritocracy, because the reward for having merit - money - is itself an effective substitute for merit.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#44

Post by strikelaserclaw »

probably_wrong wrote: post #32
plankers wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you didn't even hit the core dependency: a capitalist operating system which inherently directs capital to a small pool of people

As much as I'd like to throw capitalism under the bus, communist Russia was well known for its housing problems too.

The solution is always to invent new system, we as a human race must be continually experimenting with our systems. For example, look at Singapore's model for housing.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#45

Post by throwaway6734 »

pochekailov wrote: post #14

Nothing will change while the homeowners have more political power than the renters. Even in the cities where the renter population is bigger than the homeowners, such as in Seattle, half of the votes come from people of > 65 years old (all of whom are homeowners, likely more than one home). Young people simply won't vote at all. There is very little incentives for the young people to vote. Even if you cancel all the…

Add to this the upcoming social security and Medicare crises, the constant rise in healthcare prices driven by elder care, and a shrinking population that needs to support more retirees.

We're in a weird place in the US where young people are unwilling to flex any political power to stop elder people from financially taking advantage of them.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#46

Post by rco8786 »

pochekailov wrote: post #14

Nothing will change while the homeowners have more political power than the renters. Even in the cities where the renter population is bigger than the homeowners, such as in Seattle, half of the votes come from people of > 65 years old (all of whom are homeowners, likely more than one home). Young people simply won't vote at all. There is very little incentives for the young people to vote. Even if you cancel all the…

Definitely not that simple. To use your same argument though, it’s not just homeowners - it’s homeowners and aspiring homeowners. Which is nearly everyone.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#47

Post by pochekailov »

mantas wrote: post #35
pochekailov wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is very good for productivity when many jobs are concentrated in one location. This unlocks the possibility for serendipitous connections. It is awesome when you can meet a founder, a leading engineer, an investor, a designer and a PR person in a coffee line, forming a new company before finishing your morning coffee. Talents concentrated in one place gives significant boost to their productivity. This is called a…

Can you really meet them if they're scattered over a multi-million city? I find the opposite. A digestible size ( But even here in just-over-500k city people are already resorting to Zoom calls from one's office/home (or lake-side getaways) over meeting in coffeeshop.

I find it easier in the bigger city; but I might be biased as I lived in a big city most of my life.

What I meant is an ability to be within the reach of any other person within an hour.

Using zoom for 3 years now (for obvious reasons) - I find it inferior to the private in-person communication. Problem that you need to schedule a meeting, which adds some formality and is usually harder, while you can have a pleasant chat with even a rich and powerful person while accidentally meeting them in a hall. For scheduling a zoom call, you need to find an excuse. To chat in a hall with someone - you don't need and excuse.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#48

Post by pochekailov »

rco8786 wrote: post #46
pochekailov wrote: post #14

Nothing will change while the homeowners have more political power than the renters. Even in the cities where the renter population is bigger than the homeowners, such as in Seattle, half of the votes come from people of > 65 years old (all of whom are homeowners, likely more than one home). Young people simply won't vote at all. There is very little incentives for the young people to vote. Even if you cancel all the…

Definitely not that simple. To use your same argument though, it’s not just homeowners - it’s homeowners and aspiring homeowners . Which is nearly everyone.

The longer I live the more I am finding the universe is working on extremely simple few principles; their relations create complexity.

Aspiring homeowners will never become homeowners if the price is exclusionary.

Take SF: with average salary of 75-79K, the apartment cost starts from 1.1M. Only 8% has salary > than 100K, that makes the remaining 92% the "aspiring" homeowners.

They will stay "aspiring" for the rest of their life. The only think they (or rather, "we") can do - make sure that post-zoomer generation don't have to be "aspiring" for their entire lives.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#49

Post by pochekailov »

throwaway6734 wrote: post #45
pochekailov wrote: post #14

Nothing will change while the homeowners have more political power than the renters. Even in the cities where the renter population is bigger than the homeowners, such as in Seattle, half of the votes come from people of > 65 years old (all of whom are homeowners, likely more than one home). Young people simply won't vote at all. There is very little incentives for the young people to vote. Even if you cancel all the…

Add to this the upcoming social security and Medicare crises, the constant rise in healthcare prices driven by elder care, and a shrinking population that needs to support more retirees. We're in a weird place in the US where young people are unwilling to flex any political power to stop elder people from financially taking advantage of them.

Only one question: why are they unwilling? Is it that hard? They won't be killed or tortured, like in Belarus or Russia, then why not?

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#50

Post by pochekailov »

strikelaserclaw wrote: post #42
pochekailov wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is very good for productivity when many jobs are concentrated in one location. This unlocks the possibility for serendipitous connections. It is awesome when you can meet a founder, a leading engineer, an investor, a designer and a PR person in a coffee line, forming a new company before finishing your morning coffee. Talents concentrated in one place gives significant boost to their productivity. This is called a…

I'm not so sure about this, i believe the optimal curve for city population looks like the optimal stress response, after a certain level having more is just detrimental. There should be enough people where opportunities arise but no so much that your mind is too influenced by noise where you can't accurately make good decisions.

I totally agree with you. I only think that you should be the one to decide how many is too many opportunities for you, not a bunch of NIMBYists.
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