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Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

gdprhub.eu

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Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#41

Post by intunderflow »

And slowly but surely the tidal wave of the consequences of GDPR versus the CLOUD Act come into view.

It will take many years to of delays and fretting (due to the dependence on US clouds) but fundamentally the current legal position is that GDPR is fundamentally incompatible with any personal data transfer to the USA, that's how Google Analytics keeps getting banned too.

At some point this will all come to a head and something will have to budge given the gigantic consequences of such a position, from AWS to GCP to Stripe to even basic things like your Domain Registrar.

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#42

Post by rubito »

fvdessen wrote: post #11

Looking for an informed opinion; what are the practical consequences for European companies using American cloud providers (which I guess is most of them) ?

Not a problem with consumer facing services but usually problematic with comunal and state related projects that store personal data.

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#43

Post by denton-scratch »

pfortuny wrote: post #6
jimbob45 wrote: post #5

Isn’t this sort of what we accuse the Chinese of doing? The US designs the technology and then the Chinese manufacturers steal that design to make their own? Except now, the EU is more or less forcing American companies to sell unaffiliated spin-offs to the EU to continue doing business there. Seems a bit underhanded to change the rules now after so long, especially considering the fact that the EU can’t make these c…

This is germany still, not the whole of the EU. But it does show how an all-reaching law like gdpr can have stramge consequences…

Doesn't seem strange to me; I'm surprised it got to court.

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#44

Post by raverbashing »

olliej wrote: post #12
jimbob45 wrote: post #5

Isn’t this sort of what we accuse the Chinese of doing? The US designs the technology and then the Chinese manufacturers steal that design to make their own? Except now, the EU is more or less forcing American companies to sell unaffiliated spin-offs to the EU to continue doing business there. Seems a bit underhanded to change the rules now after so long, especially considering the fact that the EU can’t make these c…

No? This is the obvious outcome of the US government’s repeated and explicit statement that non-US residents do not have any due process rights and thus no warrant requirements, followed by - when companies tried to compensate for this abuse by creating subsidiaries in the EU - stating that the US government also had access to all subsidiaries data, again with no due process protections. What did the US government th…

True, this is the crux of it

If you let all subsidiaries of M/G/A within reach of US courts (including customer data) don't get surprised when other countries treat it as toxic

The US gov would never accept this in procurement, so why should other countries?

On the case in question, it seems the company changed the tender document to take out some (protection) clauses

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#45

Post by superchroma »

mlqaa wrote: post #31
jimbob45 wrote: post #5

Isn’t this sort of what we accuse the Chinese of doing? The US designs the technology and then the Chinese manufacturers steal that design to make their own? Except now, the EU is more or less forcing American companies to sell unaffiliated spin-offs to the EU to continue doing business there. Seems a bit underhanded to change the rules now after so long, especially considering the fact that the EU can’t make these c…

Many (if not the majority) of open source projects that are used to power the whole spectacle have originated in Europe and now have a majority of international contributors. But the power centers (foundations etc.) are in the USA. International contributors are expected to bow to U.S. cultural dominance and follow the latest whims. OSS has been stolen by the USA.

Also noted elsewhere is that US tech companies are hand in hand with the US intelligence apparatus.

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#46

Post by CGamesPlay »

michaelbuckbee wrote: post #34

The context for this: say you're a SaaS and you want to tap into the EU market. Per GDPR, personally identifiable data shouldn't leave the jurisdiction of the EU so you should use EU hosted servers, storage etc. So you might then split your app to an EU hosted datacenter of your preferred cloud provider. This ruling says that's insufficient as while the data remains functionally in the EU it's still possible for it t…

> it's still possible for it to be accessed on the backend by non EU entities.

Why is this the case? Why aren't EU employees who allow the data to leave the EU negligent?

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#47

Post by chrisseaton »

ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: post #24
jimbob45 wrote: post #5

Isn’t this sort of what we accuse the Chinese of doing? The US designs the technology and then the Chinese manufacturers steal that design to make their own? Except now, the EU is more or less forcing American companies to sell unaffiliated spin-offs to the EU to continue doing business there. Seems a bit underhanded to change the rules now after so long, especially considering the fact that the EU can’t make these c…

I hope you are aware that "the cloud" is not some secret, mysterious piece of technology that the EU can't figure out. We have software engineers as well as data centers and EU-based cloud companies. Digital consumer networks were established here long before the U.S and the internet was invented here. Your arrogance is grating.

> the internet was invented here

In Europe?

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#48

Post by ROTMetro »

plandis wrote: post #20

US needs to economically retaliate in kind. If the US has the same data protections as the EU they’d make up some other excuse to attack US companies. This is what happens when you can’t compete you make up regulatory excuses. I’m sure I’ll get downvoted by Europeans but it’s the truth. Look at the valuable companies and where they are located :)

You should see how the EU screws American 'certain industry' companies and fails to honor reciprocity deals. Then add that it is legal and tax deductible for German business' to bribe/kickback to corrupt businesses overseas and man does Europe have a sweet deal without our 'open and reciprocal trade'. Unfair denied access to European markets but open access for Europe in the USA. Overseas company's officials expecting bribes/kickbacks like the Germans give overseas.

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#49

Post by Lx1oG-AWb6h_ZG0 »

> It followed that company A's service qualified as an unlawful transfer of data to a third country because their parent company was located in the US, violating relevant data protection law (Article 44 GDPR).

> The Chamber explained that a transfer in this context must also be assumed when data can be accessed from a third country, regardless of whether this actually takes place. The fact that the physical location of the server that provides such access was located in the EU was irrelevant.

I think this is an interpretation of GDPR that most companies are not prepared for. You could write an implementation that restricts access to EU data, but if the parent company is not in EU, I guess the implementation could always be changed to allow access. Ergo, GDPR violation?

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#50

Post by joshuaissac »

jimbob45 wrote: post #5

Isn’t this sort of what we accuse the Chinese of doing? The US designs the technology and then the Chinese manufacturers steal that design to make their own? Except now, the EU is more or less forcing American companies to sell unaffiliated spin-offs to the EU to continue doing business there. Seems a bit underhanded to change the rules now after so long, especially considering the fact that the EU can’t make these c…

> Except now, the EU is more or less forcing American companies to sell unaffiliated spin-offs to the EU to continue doing business there.

Isn't that what happened with TikTok?

Both China and the US have laws that force global subsidiaries of Chinese/American companies to hand over data held overseas.

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