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Libraries – how companies do not understand open spaces

mtajchert.com

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Re: Libraries – how companies do not understand open spaces

#41

Post by deepdriver »

theonething wrote: post #34

I rarely have every experienced a library where it was quiet enough to do deep work. There is always that one (or more) person that ruins it. Talking loud, talking on their phone, even watching a show on their laptop out loud. This is in the US. The worst I experienced was in Singapore. Kids running around like it was a playground. Or teenage couples using it as a place to date. The last one is a big wtf head scratch…

>This is in the US.

In both my current and previous US city, downtown libraries function as de facto daytime homeless shelters. On the one hand this is good, as people in unfortunate circumstances can get Internet access, apply for jobs, and retain access to email. On the other hand some of those people browse porn, play music, and watch videos without headphones on the library computers. Others wander in off the street to have loud conversations with the front desk staff.

Where I live now, this feels like the library’s main purpose. Either as a cause or a consequence, library staff seem to see themselves as social workers first, activists second, and librarians third, as reflected in the library’s public services and calendar of events.

Re: Libraries – how companies do not understand open spaces

#42

Post by pramodbiligiri »

bruce511 wrote: post #28

So back in the day we solved the open office problem by putting walks and doors around each worker. We moved premises and took the opportunity to give everyone a (small) office with a door. About 70% of our actual floor plan was for common open space - big kitchen, diner, lounge etc. But for work you had a private space with a door. Over 10 years later we bought another company and had their local staff over for a vi…

I've heard of this appealing design called "Eudaimonia Machine" that combines spaces for deep work and spaces for collaboration [1]. I would love to know if any companies have tried this out.

[1] - https://medium.com/@jsmathison/i-cant-stop-dreaming-of-eudai...

Re: Libraries – how companies do not understand open spaces

#43

Post by AmVess »

bruce511 wrote: post #28

So back in the day we solved the open office problem by putting walks and doors around each worker. We moved premises and took the opportunity to give everyone a (small) office with a door. About 70% of our actual floor plan was for common open space - big kitchen, diner, lounge etc. But for work you had a private space with a door. Over 10 years later we bought another company and had their local staff over for a vi…

My last company, I had offices with doors, conference rooms with glass doors, and collaboration spaces in between. It worked very well.

Re: Libraries – how companies do not understand open spaces

#44

Post by spc476 »

xpe wrote: post #18
thrown_22 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who will be the library nazi that kicks you out when you talk too loudly?

We don't need to refer to a librarian that way. Yeah, I know, Seinfeld did it. It isn't funny or interesting. It is a cliché. Let's try to choose our language so that our history and language can hold onto meanings that matter. There is a Star Trek TNG episode called Darmok that describes a culture that only speaks in metaphor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darmok Surely we have a better metaphor for a meek but power…

There's always Conan the Librarian.

Re: Libraries – how companies do not understand open spaces

#45

Post by ebjaas_2022 »

egypturnash wrote: post #12
bachmitre wrote: post #9

I think once you allow eating at the tables and have everyone hammering their keyboards (as opposed to mostly reading) there won't be much of a difference to an open office anymore

Four hundred programmers, all in the same room, tapping away intermittently at their big, loud, mechanical keyboards. Swirling about the room as some people start cranking out the code at high speed, some pause to think and debug. You can hear when the whole team is in the groove and bringing that Lines Of Code metric up, but the sound of that one person thoughtfully, slowly, refactoring, and deleting reams of now-ob…

Beautiful!

Re: Libraries – how companies do not understand open spaces

#46

Post by dazc »

theonething wrote: post #34

I rarely have every experienced a library where it was quiet enough to do deep work. There is always that one (or more) person that ruins it. Talking loud, talking on their phone, even watching a show on their laptop out loud. This is in the US. The worst I experienced was in Singapore. Kids running around like it was a playground. Or teenage couples using it as a place to date. The last one is a big wtf head scratch…

You get this in the UK too; libraries have become spaces for everyone to enjoy with the inevitable consequences.

Around ten years ago I didn't have the money for an office so would work a few hours each day in the 'quiet' section of our local library. I could sometimes go a whole 5 minutes without wanting to murder someone.

Re: Libraries – how companies do not understand open spaces

#47

Post by cyphar »

spoonjim wrote: post #24
cratermoon wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are not working collaboratively in open-plan offices. "Recent research shows that such offices result in 73 per cent less face-to-face interaction, and a 67 per cent increase in email interaction." https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/325959

I believe it about open plan vs private offices, but this is a comparison between offices in general and libraries (which have effectively zero collaboration)

> libraries (which have effectively zero collaboration)

Have you never studied with other people together at a library? Most of my time spent in library during high school and university was spent working together on assignments or studying in groups for exams. It's not just me, whenever I go to my local libraries, they're always full of students studying (many studying in groups).

Re: Libraries – how companies do not understand open spaces

#48

Post by 867-5309 »

xpe wrote: post #18
thrown_22 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who will be the library nazi that kicks you out when you talk too loudly?

We don't need to refer to a librarian that way. Yeah, I know, Seinfeld did it. It isn't funny or interesting. It is a cliché. Let's try to choose our language so that our history and language can hold onto meanings that matter. There is a Star Trek TNG episode called Darmok that describes a culture that only speaks in metaphor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darmok Surely we have a better metaphor for a meek but power…

"librar" should suffice - just remember to zip it

Re: Libraries – how companies do not understand open spaces

#49

Post by onion2k »

tajchert wrote: post #2

With remote work, open spaces from hell are (hopefully) a thing of the past, but key learnings on proper room culture are still valid after almost 200 years. How 400 people can work in deep focus in library but cannot do the same in company open space?

How 400 people can work in deep focus in library but cannot do the same in company open space?

People go to a library because they want to do work.

The same is not true of an office. Lots of people there would prefer to be somewhere else.

Re: Libraries – how companies do not understand open spaces

#50

Post by PaulRobinson »

mr_tristan wrote: post #8

It is interesting to use a library as a model, but I would be amazed that you could get any particular company to understand and implement it. I could see teams having dedicated coworking areas that are extended from a large central open area. But, I could also predict that people would just carry their discussions into the open area, and constantly walk up and disturb the peace by asking "quick questions" anyway. An…

I'm curious about how we got to a place where we can assume that our colleagues will disrespect other colleagues and laugh at those asking for more respect.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but there is something quite horrid about a working culture where we think that might ever happen.

If you say "this big open space is like a library: no fixed desks, sit where you want; we expect quiet, there is a 'librarian' who is empowered to ask you to keep the noise down or leave; you do not bring food and drinks into this space other than water; you do not take calls or do meetings in this space", I think most people would get that.

But you would, perhaps, need the librarian to enforce the rules, because you're right, a decent %age of working age adults are utterly self-absorbed and will think the rules should not apply to them.

Perhaps part of the problem is in an open _public_ space like a library, the only person with authority is the librarian. In a company, that person is going to be a mid-level manager at best - what happens when a more senior manager decides they are going to break those rules?

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