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What is the cost of a cashless society?

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Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#41

Post by wslh »

AnotherGoodName wrote: post #32

Australia's been cashless for a long time now and has no laws requiring acceptance of cash so a lot of places are cashless only. Even the old lady who has a tea and snack cart at the train station is cashless here. I'll state some benefits: Public transport becomes much better. You tap your card or phone and never bother with the hassle of a ticket ever again. You probably never realized just how much of a barrier th…

In a cashless society there is a lot of information about people in few hands and you never know how this information will be used now or in the future. It can be a democracy or a dictatorship. The corruption is everywhere, the threshold is different.

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#42

Post by chii »

BurningFrog wrote: post #34
toomuchtodo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cash is the illusion of autonomy and control of one’s financial destiny to those who don’t believe in regulation as a recourse mechanism for financial inclusion. The solution is not cash, it is regulators who will kick the door in when you’ve suffered injury in the course of using financial infrastructure or services.

The solution of "let's just have smart and benevolent rulers" to the old "Who will guard the guards?" question doesn't have the greatest track record.

have a paper-scissors-rock style guard - the separation of powers and checks and balances.

Institution1 holds regulatory powers, and institution2 is the guard/police for institution1. Then another institution3 guards institution2, and institution1 also has a responsibility to oversea institution3.

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#43

Post by Kamq »

turdit wrote: post #30
bediger4000 wrote: post #21

I think this is a good thing. It will prevent Terrorism, and keep us all from buying Porn, so no more onanism or Luciferian child abuse and cannibalism. Also will eliminate drugs.

what’s terrorism?

Any sort of violence that the people in power don't like

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#44

Post by cowtools »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #35
BurningFrog wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution of "let's just have smart and benevolent rulers" to the old "Who will guard the guards?" question doesn't have the greatest track record.

Does the need for constant vigilance suck? Yes. Is it necessary because humans will be humans? Also yes. If change is inevitable, as is turnover in governance and those who participate in it, than naturally systems and underlying mechanisms must be maintained to ensure stability. People problems demand people solutions. I know, it’s a bummer. No tech saved Kansas abortion rights earlier this week. Overwhelming consti…

What you are suggesting is that all societal problems are "people problems". So we should just give up trying long-term solutions and just engage in partisan politics all the time.

You are making the perfect the enemy of the good. This is not about fixing everything all the time. This is about giving individuals in general leverage against their institutions. The goal is to put systems in place that make the individual battles (for liberty, equality, and the pursuit of happiness) easier.

I think your failure to identify the nature of this situation is emblematic of a failure of common liberal/leftist thought.

P.S. We still live in a time of great prosperity and freedom. That's largely due to technological progress. Technology can be the difference between feasible and impossible regulation. Technology changes the very landscape on which the political battles occur. To ignore the influence of technology on politics is to go into battle blindfolded.

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#45

Post by hnov »

AnotherGoodName wrote: post #32

Australia's been cashless for a long time now and has no laws requiring acceptance of cash so a lot of places are cashless only. Even the old lady who has a tea and snack cart at the train station is cashless here. I'll state some benefits: Public transport becomes much better. You tap your card or phone and never bother with the hassle of a ticket ever again. You probably never realized just how much of a barrier th…

I love the sentiment of avoiding the totalitarian dictatorship but you don’t exactly have any control there. Technology is leverage and it can be used for evil, just as with IBM tabulating machines in nazi Germany

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#46

Post by Nursie »

AnotherGoodName wrote: post #32

Australia's been cashless for a long time now and has no laws requiring acceptance of cash so a lot of places are cashless only. Even the old lady who has a tea and snack cart at the train station is cashless here. I'll state some benefits: Public transport becomes much better. You tap your card or phone and never bother with the hassle of a ticket ever again. You probably never realized just how much of a barrier th…

> Australia has phone based drivers licenses

This is news to me, out here on the West coast. Might have to look into that!

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#47

Post by happyopossum »

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #20
teddyh wrote: post #12

Everybody who talks about how they never use cash and love the convenience of never having to use cash, they all sound just like all the people who loved Google just before their account was terminated for undisclosed reasons.

Banks can freeze your account for undisclosed reasons too so I'm not sure I see the point.

> I'm not sure I see the point.

That is the point. In a cashless society, you’re one AI-led decision away from having no ability to purchase anything.

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#48

Post by AnotherGoodName »

Nursie wrote: post #46
AnotherGoodName wrote: post #32

Australia's been cashless for a long time now and has no laws requiring acceptance of cash so a lot of places are cashless only. Even the old lady who has a tea and snack cart at the train station is cashless here. I'll state some benefits: Public transport becomes much better. You tap your card or phone and never bother with the hassle of a ticket ever again. You probably never realized just how much of a barrier th…

> Australia has phone based drivers licenses This is news to me, out here on the West coast. Might have to look into that!

Travelling to the West coast i asked a fellow passenger "how far back should i wind my watch?".

"About 20 years" came the reply. :D

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#49

Post by Teever »

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #20
teddyh wrote: post #12

Everybody who talks about how they never use cash and love the convenience of never having to use cash, they all sound just like all the people who loved Google just before their account was terminated for undisclosed reasons.

Banks can freeze your account for undisclosed reasons too so I'm not sure I see the point.

Not everyone is paid with direct deposit or cheque.

Many people used to get paid in cash and paid their rent in cash and paid for their food and gas in cash.

There are still many people who don't have bank accounts.

Re: What is the cost of a cashless society?

#50

Post by lotsofpulp »

asciident wrote: post #26
thescriptkiddie wrote: post #10

Another thing to consider in that credit and debit card processing fees, which in the US are substantial, especially for small merchants that can't use large volume to negotiate a discount. This amounts to a ~3% hidden "tax" on all transactions, the bulk of which goes to one of four enormous corporations.

3% is actually not bad for what it gets you: fraud detection, not having to lug cash to the bank every day, reduction of theft and employee mistakes, better recordkeeping for taxes, a way to handle refunds, and cleanliness. Small merchants often use Venmo where I am, and they save 3% in exchange for that awkward dance of sending payments.

Vendors can choose to accept only debit cards and not have to pay 3%. Accepting debit cards is basically free in comparison.
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