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GlobalFoundries joins Google’s open source silicon initiative

opensource.googleblog.com

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Re: GlobalFoundries joins Google’s open source silicon initiative

#41

Post by skybrian »

gurjeet wrote: post #21
redanddead wrote: post #5

I might get some hate for this, but Google seems to be doing some really cool things, like in fintech as well as this silicon project. Google Finance is one of the only players I've seen with an interest of opening things up when so much of the industry is about pushing others out and restricting access. Like for example the CME deal, to open source live, low latency stock market data. Bloomberg might let you rent it…

> ... data the avg person sees is 15 minutes delayed ..., that may as well be a light year. Nit pick: you've got your units mixed up; minute is a unit of time, and light-year is a unit of distance.

In astronomy, aren't they in some sense equivalent? Andromeda galaxy is 2.5 million light years way, so we are seeing it as it was 2.5 million years in the past.

Re: GlobalFoundries joins Google’s open source silicon initiative

#42

Post by mnahkies »

redanddead wrote: post #5

I might get some hate for this, but Google seems to be doing some really cool things, like in fintech as well as this silicon project. Google Finance is one of the only players I've seen with an interest of opening things up when so much of the industry is about pushing others out and restricting access. Like for example the CME deal, to open source live, low latency stock market data. Bloomberg might let you rent it…

Ibkr gives me close to real time data for about $6 a month - I've not read the fine print closely but I'd be shocked if it is 15min stale. It's localized to certain exchanges but covers most bases. Ultimately any retail investor is unlikely to be able to capitalise on millisecond data without developing their own hft bots

Re: GlobalFoundries joins Google’s open source silicon initiative

#43

Post by grandmczeb »

skywal_l wrote: post #14

Can somebody ELI5 this to me? Wbo will that help? And how? 180nm seems big, at least for computer CPUs.

This is a very imperfect analogy, but CPUs are typically designed using a high level language like SystemVerilog (equivalent to something like C++ in the software world.) To actually get the CPU manufactured, you have to "compile" it into a binary format that specifies the physical layout of the chip while respecting a set of design rules for whatever process you're targeting. These rules are usually considered highly confidential since they can reveal manufacturing details that the foundry wants to keep secret. This secrecy is part of the reason that open source never really took off for silicon the way it did in the software world - imagine if every time you wanted to compile your code for a new machine you had to pay a bunch of money and sign an NDA.

The hope here is that open sourcing the design rules will help build an ecosystem of open source silicon. While it's true that 180nm is too big for anything high performance, it's perfectly fine for hobbyists who don't have the money required for more advanced nodes anyway. On the foundry side, they don't need to be as secretive about old nodes and it might increase demand for underutilized manufacturing capacity.

Re: GlobalFoundries joins Google’s open source silicon initiative

#44

Post by mgraczyk »

mnahkies wrote: post #42
redanddead wrote: post #5

I might get some hate for this, but Google seems to be doing some really cool things, like in fintech as well as this silicon project. Google Finance is one of the only players I've seen with an interest of opening things up when so much of the industry is about pushing others out and restricting access. Like for example the CME deal, to open source live, low latency stock market data. Bloomberg might let you rent it…

Ibkr gives me close to real time data for about $6 a month - I've not read the fine print closely but I'd be shocked if it is 15min stale. It's localized to certain exchanges but covers most bases. Ultimately any retail investor is unlikely to be able to capitalise on millisecond data without developing their own hft bots

Even without a plan you can get snapshots for about $0.01 each that I believe are less than 15s old

Re: GlobalFoundries joins Google’s open source silicon initiative

#45

Post by panabee »

grandmczeb wrote: post #43
skywal_l wrote: post #14

Can somebody ELI5 this to me? Wbo will that help? And how? 180nm seems big, at least for computer CPUs.

This is a very imperfect analogy, but CPUs are typically designed using a high level language like SystemVerilog (equivalent to something like C++ in the software world.) To actually get the CPU manufactured, you have to "compile" it into a binary format that specifies the physical layout of the chip while respecting a set of design rules for whatever process you're targeting. These rules are usually considered highl…

once a process is no longer bleeding edge, what's the benefit of keeping manufacturing details secret?

at this stage, presumably no one would risk the capital and time required to copy the foundry while publishing details increases the likelihood of attracting more clients.

thanks in advance for the clarification on why the industry operates the way it does.

Re: GlobalFoundries joins Google’s open source silicon initiative

#46

Post by matheusmoreira »

scarface74 wrote: post #34
redanddead wrote: post #5

I might get some hate for this, but Google seems to be doing some really cool things, like in fintech as well as this silicon project. Google Finance is one of the only players I've seen with an interest of opening things up when so much of the industry is about pushing others out and restricting access. Like for example the CME deal, to open source live, low latency stock market data. Bloomberg might let you rent it…

Don’t be too impressed. Every company is interested in “opening things up” when it’s to their competitive advantage. You notice that “open” Android is increasingly dependent on closed source “Google Play Services” and Google uses the closed source parts to beat OEMs into submission?

Not to mention the fact they provide hardware attestation to apps which will enable them to lock out rooted phones.

Re: GlobalFoundries joins Google’s open source silicon initiative

#47

Post by arroz »

ricksunny wrote: post #39

Been a while since I was in the semiconductor industry, but it looks like this open-sourcing is intended to free up the ecosystem from dependence on Cadence EDA. Nice, could open up opportunity for creation of a lot of cottage fabless semiconductor startups. (does anyone known whether Cadence had ever gotten on the freemium offering model?)

Cadence works on some sort of subscription nowadays

Re: GlobalFoundries joins Google’s open source silicon initiative

#48

Post by guipsp »

Teodolfo wrote: post #24
redanddead wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

fixed, thank you

In some unit systems ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geometrized_unit_system ) they are both units of length.

They are not both units of length on that system either.

Re: GlobalFoundries joins Google’s open source silicon initiative

#49

Post by skybrian »

colordrops wrote: post #6
google234123 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a shitpost.

What did I say that was inaccurate or untrue?

It's an off-topic complaint. Just because someone posts a link about Google (or substitute any other company) doesn't mean it's okay to post whatever complaints about Google you want. Particularly when they're the same sort of repetitive complaints people post every time. We've heard it, give it a rest.

Re: GlobalFoundries joins Google’s open source silicon initiative

#50

Post by rektide »

Very excited to see another foundry join up! Welcome GlobalFoundries!

Last week SkyWater announced a 90nm PDK, which is smaller than the current SkyWater 130nm. Also crucially, this one is FDSOI (fully-depleted silicon on insulator), which keeps chips from leaking power, meaning this should be much more ideal for any kind of mobile always-on design. Neat.

And now comes GF's 180MCU PDK. At first, it's like: this is bigger, what the heck! But it's designed for mixed signal & power designs, like Power Management Integrated Circuits (PMICs).

Really neat having something a little smaller and something a little bigger right near where we started. I really hope some of the existing people who've done open chip design on the existing shuttles get to make similar-ish chips on the new bigger & smaller processes & can nicely characterize some of the performance differences.

This all just makes so much sense. Making sure chipmaking is a healthy, robust, creative, growing industry is in everyone's interest. Without efforts like this, it feels like the industry is at risk of too much consolidation, of everyone getting bought out and/or giving up, and there not being vibrant chipmaking at all. The wave of buyouts across the 201X's was shocking. I continue to think part of the chipmaking crunch was just that there are so many less independent entities now; the diversity of the ecosystem is way down.

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