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TikTok’s Poison Pill

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Re: TikTok’s Poison Pill

#41

Post by jollybean »

nixcraft wrote: post #5

There is lots of talk going around TikTok, especially now geopolitics has been added to this kind of discussion due to ongoing tensions between two giants. Instead of banning or removing the TikTok app, how about the US government put a firm privacy policy that forbids TikTok, Microsoft, Apple, Facebook, Twitter and co from collecting excessive data on users? That would be a better solution, IMHO. Let users download…

It'd be practically impossible to enforce the 'privacy' concerns, because the data is so vast and accessible to CCP entities employed by ByteDance. I mean, they literally pay CCP members to promote government policy agenda within the company.

As for trade - FB, Google etc. - none of it is even allowed in China. So purely from a 'trade parity' basis, Chinese social apps simply should not be allowed in the US. If we can't have apps 'there' then our policy should be 'tit for tat' and do the same thing our side.

Re: TikTok’s Poison Pill

#42

Post by nonrandomstring »

nixcraft wrote: post #5

There is lots of talk going around TikTok, especially now geopolitics has been added to this kind of discussion due to ongoing tensions between two giants. Instead of banning or removing the TikTok app, how about the US government put a firm privacy policy that forbids TikTok, Microsoft, Apple, Facebook, Twitter and co from collecting excessive data on users? That would be a better solution, IMHO. Let users download…

> Just make one rule for all.

This is the correct solution of winning the moral high ground.

What Russia has been doing for several decades (see Yuri Bezmenov [1]) is leveraging the "west's" inner discontent. Every time a Watergate or Snowden happens it's a gift to them. It exposes our 'hypocrisy', and failure to live up to our own democratic standards. That fuels the narrative of the western nations as corrupt.

We're in a bind because the kind of medicine that would fight the even more sophisticated Chinese tactics now would also hurt our own corporations and agencies. But we must take it. Targeted advertising and domestic surveillance must go if our values are to survive in the world.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Bezmenov

Re: TikTok’s Poison Pill

#43

Post by leksak »

Thorrez wrote: post #18
kart23 wrote: post #6

Bring back google+. oh wait, I guess we really can't trust anyone with user data. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Google_data_breach >In October 2018, the Wall Street Journal published an article outlining the initial breach and Google's decision to not disclose it to users.[18] At the time, there was no federal law that required Google to inform their consumers of data breaches. Google+ originally did not disclos…

What is the definition of a breach? Are all vulnerabilities considered breaches? If a website finds a vulnerability in their code, fixes it, and doesn't find any evidence of attack, do they generally tell the public about that? Disclosure: I work at Google, but never on Google+.

Depends on the vulnerability. It might be prudent to disclose it so users have the freedom to, for instance, change their passwords elsewhere as most people do indeed reuse passwords.

I'm not sure how this metaphor holds up under scrutiny but disclosing all vulnerabilities might be akin to considering yourself having had a break-in every time you forgot to lock the door.

Re: TikTok’s Poison Pill

#44

Post by fragmede »

Havoc wrote: post #11
doctor_eval wrote: post #2

Something I've never understood about these pivots from successful, revenue generating products. Sure, some users will leave Instagram for Tiktok. But isn't it a different product? Wouldn't Meta have been better off creating a new product and integrating it with Instagram, rather than killing the golden goose? This kind of thing seems to happen really often.

Launching something new and separate inherently means starting with zero user base.

I'm sure Mark Zuckerberg could use his influence at Facebook, Instagram, and WhatsApp to get a few users to try out a new app he coded up over the weekend.

Re: TikTok’s Poison Pill

#45

Post by prawn »

doctor_eval wrote: post #2

Something I've never understood about these pivots from successful, revenue generating products. Sure, some users will leave Instagram for Tiktok. But isn't it a different product? Wouldn't Meta have been better off creating a new product and integrating it with Instagram, rather than killing the golden goose? This kind of thing seems to happen really often.

Adjusting your product means you don't start your userbase from scratch, but I do agree that I'd prefer they start a fresh product and leverage the userbase to promote it.

But I think it's easier for them to centralise advertising operations where possible and steer the most malleable and lucrative audience rather than appease (what they thought of as) a minority of people.

Re: TikTok’s Poison Pill

#46

Post by throwawaylinux »

nextos wrote: post #38
nixcraft wrote: post #5

There is lots of talk going around TikTok, especially now geopolitics has been added to this kind of discussion due to ongoing tensions between two giants. Instead of banning or removing the TikTok app, how about the US government put a firm privacy policy that forbids TikTok, Microsoft, Apple, Facebook, Twitter and co from collecting excessive data on users? That would be a better solution, IMHO. Let users download…

> [...] how about the US government put a firm privacy policy that forbids TikTok, Microsoft, Apple, Facebook, Twitter and co from collecting excessive data on users And also a policy that forbids UX addictive-by-design patterns to induce bad habits.

How exactly would you word or enforce such a policy? What is a "bad habit"? Is fun or happiness addictive? Why might the puritan nanny state approach work better here than with alcohol, drugs, or abortion?

Re: TikTok’s Poison Pill

#47

Post by Ekaros »

throwaway4good wrote: post #35
computerfriend wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TikTok is Big Tech. Neither will "kill off the whole planet", but it is so crazy to me that someone who can hate Facebook and the "US military surveillance industrial complex" can consequentially support TikTok. You don't actually have a problem with big tech or surveillance, you have a problem with the US.

Indeed. Here in Europe, the Chinese we can handle, for the US we have to bend the knee.

Against Chinese we have pretty good buffer zone. Same can't be said for a country that continues to murder innocent civilians around the world with drone strikes. And forcefully extradite foreigners...

Re: TikTok’s Poison Pill

#48

Post by fxtentacle »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #42
nixcraft wrote: post #5

There is lots of talk going around TikTok, especially now geopolitics has been added to this kind of discussion due to ongoing tensions between two giants. Instead of banning or removing the TikTok app, how about the US government put a firm privacy policy that forbids TikTok, Microsoft, Apple, Facebook, Twitter and co from collecting excessive data on users? That would be a better solution, IMHO. Let users download…

> Just make one rule for all. This is the correct solution of winning the moral high ground. What Russia has been doing for several decades (see Yuri Bezmenov [1]) is leveraging the "west's" inner discontent. Every time a Watergate or Snowden happens it's a gift to them. It exposes our 'hypocrisy', and failure to live up to our own democratic standards. That fuels the narrative of the western nations as corrupt. We'r…

No post body was provided.

Re: TikTok’s Poison Pill

#49

Post by fxtentacle »

MichaelCollins wrote: post #32
nixcraft wrote: post #5

There is lots of talk going around TikTok, especially now geopolitics has been added to this kind of discussion due to ongoing tensions between two giants. Instead of banning or removing the TikTok app, how about the US government put a firm privacy policy that forbids TikTok, Microsoft, Apple, Facebook, Twitter and co from collecting excessive data on users? That would be a better solution, IMHO. Let users download…

> how about the US government put a firm privacy policy that forbids TikTok, [...] from collecting excessive data on users? This wouldn't address the way the CCP can use TikTok for subversion of America, vis-a-vis foreign election interference by Russia on social media in 2016. > Microsoft, Apple, Facebook, Twitter and co The American government has more options with American corporations, these companies aren't intr…

All of them to to great lengths to ensure Taiwan isn't accidentally mentioned as being a country.

Re: TikTok’s Poison Pill

#50

Post by bigtunacan »

lizardactivist wrote: post #21
computerfriend wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TikTok is Big Tech. Neither will "kill off the whole planet", but it is so crazy to me that someone who can hate Facebook and the "US military surveillance industrial complex" can consequentially support TikTok. You don't actually have a problem with big tech or surveillance, you have a problem with the US.

Of importance: it has been revealed several times that user identification and data collection has been used for malicious purposes by US intelligence agencies (see NSA and CIA leaks a few years ago) The same has not been proved for China. There have only been accusations by the US government, followed by an absolute reluctance and failure to provide any proof whatsoever. The US accuses China of being a bad actor eng…

This isn't really news, many countries collect data on their own citizens in expanding ways.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/06/ac...

TikTok almost certainly receives requests from various governments to collect data no differently from Facebook/Google/Verizon etc..

I think it's not a question of if China is doing this as well; certainly they are. No politician is going to publicly say though, "Look we know China is collecting data on you from TikTok because, uh duh, that's what we do with all of your US based social media posts."

I also don't think our government is all that directly concerned that China is monitoring. I think the concern is more on how the data and the outside control of the platform might be used to influence public opinions. Election tampering and the like.

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