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Linux 5.19

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Re: Linux 5.19

#41

Post by sgjohnson »

hnlmorg wrote: post #20
dncornholio wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple keyboards are the same as Windows, they just have different labels. The ALT key is called "option". CTRL is "control" and the windows key is "command".

Lots more different than that: + Windows has the Windows key (which Linux called "super") + Windows also has the context menu key, which I think it pretty useless to be honest but others might get value from that + The Mac keyboard layout is US-like, even on European models. Which means a bunch of keys are in different places from their European IBM counterparts (like @ and "). The # and / keys I find particularly ha…

> The Mac keyboard layout is US-like

This is absolutely false. European Mac keyboards are ISO. The labeling doesn’t matter, as rolling your own layout is trivial.

Re: Linux 5.19

#42

Post by Mo3 »

anothernewdude wrote: post #39
ogogmad wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Given this, it seems like MacBooks could easily end up becoming the laptop of choice for Linux developers in the years to come. What's the situation with traditional USB and HDMI ports? Dongles are easy to forget and easy to break, and lots of us have traditional USB devices lying around and 10-year-old TVs.

My M1 has an HDMI 2.0 port.

Definitely not the Air

Re: Linux 5.19

#43

Post by pizza234 »

hnlmorg wrote: post #20
dncornholio wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple keyboards are the same as Windows, they just have different labels. The ALT key is called "option". CTRL is "control" and the windows key is "command".

Lots more different than that: + Windows has the Windows key (which Linux called "super") + Windows also has the context menu key, which I think it pretty useless to be honest but others might get value from that + The Mac keyboard layout is US-like, even on European models. Which means a bunch of keys are in different places from their European IBM counterparts (like @ and "). The # and / keys I find particularly ha…

> + Windows also has the context menu key, which I think it pretty useless to be honest but others might get value from that

As a curiosity, this is actually very useful for keyboard-only users.

On X11 at least, context menu display is typically associated to Shift+F10. However, in some cases (I think the file panel in Sublime Text 3 was a notable case; not sure in v4), this binding doesn't work.

Context menu key gives a binding that is guaranteed to work :)

Re: Linux 5.19

#44

Post by vbernat »

nicoburns wrote: post #21

Somewhat surprisingly, Linux support for Apple Silicon MacBooks seems to be shaping up to be better than that for pretty much any other laptop. The Asahi team don’t have support for everything yet (notably no GPU) but what they do have support for seems to be high quality, well integrated with Linux’s conventions, and upstreamed into the mainline kernel! How much other hardware can claim that? The Asahi developers ha…

If you take a regular Lenovo laptop, everything likely works out of the box with an upstream kernel. This quite not the case yet with Asahi Linux which does not support power management, no USB, no sound.

There was a time where Apple laptops came with very good Linux support. It was the time were every bit of hardware support was present in Darwin (a 12" iBook G3 was working flawlessly with Linux for example). I think that at each generation, support gets worse because the hardware is closing down. This translates to far more time between release and having something usable with Linux.

Re: Linux 5.19

#45

Post by Bud »

manholio wrote: post #31
nicoburns wrote: post #21

Somewhat surprisingly, Linux support for Apple Silicon MacBooks seems to be shaping up to be better than that for pretty much any other laptop. The Asahi team don’t have support for everything yet (notably no GPU) but what they do have support for seems to be high quality, well integrated with Linux’s conventions, and upstreamed into the mainline kernel! How much other hardware can claim that? The Asahi developers ha…

> MacBooks could easily end up becoming the laptop of choice for Linux developers That is, if they want to subsidize with their own wallets the dominance of consumer-hostile computing that open source was created to avert. Except for development such as this here, which aims at liberating users from a closed platform, I would have a philosophical problem to buy such hardware purely for my convenience. Let's not fool…

Can't you make your argument without the fallacious roping-in of Amazon? Apple isn't Amazon. Also, if Macs are actually as hostile to consumers and to open-source computing as you claim (and boy, is this ever an old and tired claim at this point), why is Linus still working so very hard and enthusiastically to support the platform in question?

Re: Linux 5.19

#46

Post by lallysingh »

nicce wrote: post #23
moonbas3 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first number being changed doesn't mean anything in particular, it's just like another release. Check the release post for 5.0: https://lkml.org/lkml/2019/3/3/236

So we can conclude, that the the big star of open source is not enforcing the child of open source :( Ref SemVer: https://semver.org/

There aren't breaking changes.

Re: Linux 5.19

#47

Post by okasaki »

nicoburns wrote: post #21

Somewhat surprisingly, Linux support for Apple Silicon MacBooks seems to be shaping up to be better than that for pretty much any other laptop. The Asahi team don’t have support for everything yet (notably no GPU) but what they do have support for seems to be high quality, well integrated with Linux’s conventions, and upstreamed into the mainline kernel! How much other hardware can claim that? The Asahi developers ha…

Don't understand what's so great about it. Pretty much every amd64 laptop works great with Linux. I've had Lenovos, Dells, Huaweis, HPs, etc.

Not to mention laptops designed specifically to target Linux like the Framework laptop.

Re: Linux 5.19

#48

Post by rowanG077 »

amelius wrote: post #33

Wait, if Linus is happy about supporting undocumented hardware, then does he like NVidia now too?

Nvidia is actively hostile. Apple is slightly willing to get Linux to work. It's not comperable.

Re: Linux 5.19

#49

Post by matthewmacleod »

amelius wrote: post #33

Wait, if Linus is happy about supporting undocumented hardware, then does he like NVidia now too?

This is a specious argument. Supporting undocumented hardware is fine and always has been - what’s not is supporting gross non-free kernel blobs.

Re: Linux 5.19

#50

Post by moonchrome »

nicoburns wrote: post #21

Somewhat surprisingly, Linux support for Apple Silicon MacBooks seems to be shaping up to be better than that for pretty much any other laptop. The Asahi team don’t have support for everything yet (notably no GPU) but what they do have support for seems to be high quality, well integrated with Linux’s conventions, and upstreamed into the mainline kernel! How much other hardware can claim that? The Asahi developers ha…

Yeah I'm going to use a completely custom SoC + enthusiast driven driver support - with no support from manufacturer - to be my daily driver as a developer.

Because I've got nothing better to do with my time than diagnose issues due to running a setup only 50 other people in the world use.

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