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The House has passed the economic bailout bill 263 to 171

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Re: The House has passed the economic bailout bill 263 to 171

#41
post #9

What's the main difference between this bill and the one that was rejected last week? Is it just the pork offerings including a tax credit for racetrack owners and makers of wooden toy arrows?

Here is a diff between versions of the bill:

http://www.govtrack.us/special/econstimbill/changes.xpd?id=4

Re: The House has passed the economic bailout bill 263 to 171

#42
post #33

Maxine Waters: When we buy up this toxic paper, we're in charge. We can do the kind of loan modifications we've been urging [the industry coalition]... Here's a clip of Maxine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KN6s1KVFBNg ...she is making a threat to nationalize the oil industry, but flubs the word. The reporters basically laugh at her, and compare her to Hugo Chavez. Guess what? The imbecile wasn't that far off... We…

You seem to imply two false points. Chavez was elected democratically, twice. And Venezuela's oil was not nationalized. I don't like the paternalistic and interventionist style he has but he isn't Fidel Castro. In many ways, he is quite a capitalist.

To put it shortly, Castro is a Communist and Chavez is an opportunistic populist proto-dictator.

Anyway, Venezuela is screwed.

Re: The House has passed the economic bailout bill 263 to 171

#43
post #31
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't really know much about Warren Buffet. He is famous for paying unusually high taxes compared to his peers because he thinks it is the right thing for people in his position to do.

Why did he partner up with Goldman Suchs, then? I know [who he is] and besides this he is almost a financial saint. Still, he backs this bailout and will make huge profit on it. Oh, and the bailout favors his other investments. Being foreign, the bailout favors me as it helps my savings indirectly. But it is the largest scam in history.

AFAIK Buffet would support a bailout that involved buying assets at fair market value because he thinks the government could make a lot of money. He said that not buying at market value and instead giving the banks whatever they ask for these assets will likely lead to a wasted 700b. So at least in theory he supports doing the right thing.

I don't know anything about his involvement with Goldman, but maybe he realized the government will do the wrong thing anyway so he might as well profit from it.

Re: The House has passed the economic bailout bill 263 to 171

#44
post #28
post #9

What's the main difference between this bill and the one that was rejected last week? Is it just the pork offerings including a tax credit for racetrack owners and makers of wooden toy arrows?

On the Daily Show, Jon Stewart reported that the main difference was an additional $150 billion in tax breaks.

I would venture that a country whose most credible news source is a comedy show has some substantial problems with their meida.

Re: The House has passed the economic bailout bill 263 to 171

#47
post #35

If I may paraphrase a Redditor... "So is this good or bad for the economy? Bubble: bigger Collapse: inevitable Distance to fall: farther Dollar: worthless"

This plan is a disaster that will be remembered as one of the worst error in History ever. The US shot its last bullet, and it aimed at its feets. Buckle up, folks, cause the future is even more incertain now for the world.

I dunno, It will be hard to top Smoot-Hawley.

Re: The House has passed the economic bailout bill 263 to 171

#48
post #33

Maxine Waters: When we buy up this toxic paper, we're in charge. We can do the kind of loan modifications we've been urging [the industry coalition]... Here's a clip of Maxine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KN6s1KVFBNg ...she is making a threat to nationalize the oil industry, but flubs the word. The reporters basically laugh at her, and compare her to Hugo Chavez. Guess what? The imbecile wasn't that far off... We…

You seem to imply two false points. Chavez was elected democratically, twice. And Venezuela's oil was not nationalized. I don't like the paternalistic and interventionist style he has but he isn't Fidel Castro. In many ways, he is quite a capitalist.

"You"

Rather, the reporters did. And Waters was also elected democratically. And that's not the point; the point is the media's reaction to nationalization then and now.

Re: The House has passed the economic bailout bill 263 to 171

#49
I thought this bill was the worst idea ever, until I heard Warren Buffett speak up for it two days ago. Buffett has both integrity and economic skills, and he probably understands this proposal better than any of us.

For instance, http://ph.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20080924/tbs-buffett-bailout-7...

The US government has a pretty poor track record for "emergency proposals" and other decisions these last 8 years, so I understand the skepticism. I'd vote against it myself. But there's more to the story than what you hear in most inflamed internet postings. Buffett himself says that we eventually need to roll some heads, but that it shouldn't be our first priority.

  They shouldn't buy them at what they're carrying, what the carrying value is, necessarily.  
  They should buy them at the kind of prices that are available in the market.  
  People who are buying these instruments in the market are expecting to make 
  15 to 20 percent on those instruments.  If the government makes anything over its 
  cost of borrowing, this deal will come out with a profit.  And I would bet it will come out with 
  a profit, actually...

Re: The House has passed the economic bailout bill 263 to 171

#50
post #38
post #9

What's the main difference between this bill and the one that was rejected last week? Is it just the pork offerings including a tax credit for racetrack owners and makers of wooden toy arrows?

The quants are going to go to town on this one. This bill gives the SEC authority to suspend the practice of marking to market. Bad idea. That makes this bill just a big money giveaway in practice. Transfer of wealth basically. Further, the FDIC is already running low on funds, we should be slow to make new promises when we are already uncertain with regard to meeting present obligations. Additionally, raising the li…

The SEC already had the authority to suspend mark-to-market accounting. This bill just re-affirms it. Furthermore, mark-to-market is an accounting technique.It may result in fraud but there is no "transfer of wealth" about it. Furthermore, if history is any indication, corporations can always cook their book if they really want to.

The FDIC is indeed running low on funds and raising the limit at this point in time is a bad idea. However, the FDIC limit does not hide the financial health of a bank or have any direct impact on it for that matter. The limit governs what happens to customer deposits after the bank fails. Having a higher limit may indirectly help troubled banks by placating their depositors and convincing said depositors that their money is safer.

About the tax cuts. The $150 billion is a drop in the bucket. If you really want to bring costs in line, take a very hard look at Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, and Defense spending. Everything else (except now this bailout) is a rounding error compared to those.

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