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A prominent composer lost his Wikipedia page

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Re: A prominent composer lost his Wikipedia page

#41

Post by ginko »

causi wrote: post #26
unixbane wrote: post #24

> A few days ago, composer Bruce Faulconer found that his Wikipedia entry had suddenly disappeared. This was surprising because his music is known and beloved all over the world—in fact, it has been heard in more than 80 countries. Hmmm how do I already know from the first paragraph this article is bogus? Let me search this person I've never heard of. Oh, there's nothing. He's literally not noteable. "Heard in more t…

Dude he's the guy that did the music for Dragonball, a thirty billion dollar franchise. I'm shocked he was removed from Wikipedia.

Pretty sure much of the famous music for Dragon Ball like "Makafushigi Adventure!"[1] and "Cha-La Head-Cha-La"[2] was made by Japanese composers.

Did he do the music for the US dub maybe?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makafushigi_Adventure! [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cha-La_Head-Cha-La

Re: A prominent composer lost his Wikipedia page

#42

Post by stevenjgarner »

glasshug wrote: post #31
stevenjgarner wrote: post #14

Wikipedia includes entries based on notability, but they have their own idea on notability. A friend of mine is a famous voice actor who has won not one but two CLIO awards. Wikipedia deleted the page I created for him on the basis that he was not notable. Another page I created was for the person who introduced deaf sign language to New Zealand. Deleted as she was not notable. There are more than 19,000 entries for…

Wikipedia's notability guideline does not pass judgement on the importance of Oscars or "CLIOs," both of which are notable and have their own pages. Wikipedia's guideline for the notability of voice actors is:[1] > 1. Has had significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions; or > 2. Has made unique, prolific or innovative contributions to a field of entertainment…

That's the problem right there. Advertising is not even included. The number one employer of voice actors (advertisements) and they're not even included in Wikipedia's guideline for the notability of voice actors. I suggest a major revision in that Wikipedia guideline.

> significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions

- this shows the Wikipedia bias against commercial enterprise and success.

The voice actor who was not "notable" only won over 700 awards, including most of the BIG awards – from Clio, IBA, ADDY, Hatch, New York International, Sunny, Silver Microphone, Mobius, RAC, London International, ANDY, EFFIE, The One Show, and hundreds of regional awards.

Re: A prominent composer lost his Wikipedia page

#43

Post by chalst »

Robotbeat wrote: post #25
glasshug wrote: post #17

Please read the discussion that deleted this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletio... It's a hard problem. Volunteer editors are spread thinly over millions of articles, some of which (like "Bruce Faulconer") are about living people that are really important to get right.[1] The project has settled on the guideline of _notability_, meaning that articles are kept only if they have signi…

It seems to me that erroring on the side of not deleting is probably a better policy.

That is erring on the side of hosting spam, urban legends and pseudoscience. The opinion was made in the AfD that no quality sources for the article: without them, no worthwhile article can be written.

Re: A prominent composer lost his Wikipedia page

#44

Post by fcatalan »

powera wrote: post #3

It wouldn't be entirely unfair to say that Wikipedia's policies are designed to keep people like Mr. Gioia off the site and out of the decision making process. Considering that he doesn't want to learn what Wikipedia's policies are, or why they exist (and his calling people who disagree with him "trolls"), I am inclined to think that is a good thing.

It would be about 99% unfair. In my experience Wikipedia style moderation setups are a magnet for small minded petty martinets. Of course rules and some criteria are needed, but soon those people run over any shred of common sense while wielding them.

Re: A prominent composer lost his Wikipedia page

#45

Post by leereeves »

glasshug wrote: post #17

Please read the discussion that deleted this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletio... It's a hard problem. Volunteer editors are spread thinly over millions of articles, some of which (like "Bruce Faulconer") are about living people that are really important to get right.[1] The project has settled on the guideline of _notability_, meaning that articles are kept only if they have signi…

It seems the policies for notable composers [1] fail to recognize the work of TV composers.

Judging by this case, composing the music for a TV show watched for years by millions of people doesn't count, but composing something performed in a theatre and watched by far fewer people is officially notable:

> Has written musical theatre of some sort (includes musicals, operas, etc.) that was performed in a notable theatre that had a reasonable run, as such things are judged in their particular situation, context, and time.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_(music)#C...

Re: A prominent composer lost his Wikipedia page

#46

Post by kipchak »

ginko wrote: post #41
causi wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude he's the guy that did the music for Dragonball, a thirty billion dollar franchise. I'm shocked he was removed from Wikipedia.

Pretty sure much of the famous music for Dragon Ball like "Makafushigi Adventure!"[1] and "Cha-La Head-Cha-La"[2] was made by Japanese composers. Did he do the music for the US dub maybe? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makafushigi_Adventure ! [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cha-La_Head-Cha-La

Yes, the US (Funimation?) version and original has different soundtracks, both for the opening and for in the show. I'm not sure which was used in other regions where the show was popular, my guess would be south/central America got the Funimation music.

For example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgJ1heSrskY

Re: A prominent composer lost his Wikipedia page

#47

Post by armchairhacker »

Honestly even if he isn’t famous why can’t Wikipedia keep his entry? Why does Wikipedia even have “notable” requirements anyways?

There’s not a storage issue. Wikipedia can literally have billions of articles and still be easy to maintain.

There’s not really a quality issue. Wikipedia is known for not being 100% reliable. But moreover, they have tons of ways to denote “this article needs citations” and “this isn’t a reliable source”. If Wikipedia is concerned about quality, they can have “verified” and “contributed” articles, just like how distros have “stable” and “user-contributed / experimental”.

Spammers and useless content? This is an issue. But this guy is clearly not spam, the proof being any of his official works. I do agree that Wikipedia authors should remove “spammy” entries and entries on complete nobodies and random things, but you shouldn’t need to be in an Oxford journal to not be considered a “nobody”.

Even things which are famous in small towns and 1000-member groups should be on Wikipedia IMO, because most of the stuff is already on there is about as relevant to me or anyone else (which is to say, pretty irrelevant). If you want relevant content, that’s what the search tools and indexing are for.

Wikipedia is supposed to be “the grand encyclopedia” where you can find info on basically anything. There are already tons of Wikipedia articles on obscure people, places, and things. Way more obscure than this composer even if he isn’t truly well-known. Why does “relevance” even matter?

Re: A prominent composer lost his Wikipedia page

#48

Post by dwringer »

jtbayly wrote: post #12
powera wrote: post #3

It wouldn't be entirely unfair to say that Wikipedia's policies are designed to keep people like Mr. Gioia off the site and out of the decision making process. Considering that he doesn't want to learn what Wikipedia's policies are, or why they exist (and his calling people who disagree with him "trolls"), I am inclined to think that is a good thing.

Wow. I thought Wikipedia was supposed to be a public resource. I wasn't aware certain people were supposed to stay off the site.

I once tried to edit an article about a scientist who had developed a bit of surrounding controversy over his studies in parapsychology. Having no real knowledge of the debate, I didn't add or remove any information; I just felt the introduction had been written in an overtly non-neutral way by a past editor. So, I removed a couple of words like "hoax" and trimmed one or two sentences so that they didn't come off as a character assassination (they had contained unsourced editorializations). Specifics aside, the article had explicitly violated Wikipedia's policies on using NPOV language.

My edits were reverted within 24 hours, and the talk page was updated with an admonition to my IP address (I'd posted without logging in) claiming I'd been implicated in "unsavory" activities that could be found by Googling the IP (it was a dynamic IP, but of course I tried and found nothing) and making vague threats that I should not attempt such edits again. That's the last time I edited anything on Wikipedia.

Re: A prominent composer lost his Wikipedia page

#49

Post by fedeb95 »

ginko wrote: post #41
causi wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude he's the guy that did the music for Dragonball, a thirty billion dollar franchise. I'm shocked he was removed from Wikipedia.

Pretty sure much of the famous music for Dragon Ball like "Makafushigi Adventure!"[1] and "Cha-La Head-Cha-La"[2] was made by Japanese composers. Did he do the music for the US dub maybe? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makafushigi_Adventure ! [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cha-La_Head-Cha-La

No post body was provided.

Re: A prominent composer lost his Wikipedia page

#50

Post by glasshug »

solardev wrote: post #38
glasshug wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wikipedia's notability guideline does not pass judgement on the importance of Oscars or "CLIOs," both of which are notable and have their own pages. Wikipedia's guideline for the notability of voice actors is:[1] > 1. Has had significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions; or > 2. Has made unique, prolific or innovative contributions to a field of entertainment…

The problem isn't with the editors, but admins who spuriously make these judgment calls. It takes hours to create a new article and seconds to delete it. Not going to spend hours more in the silly appeals process. The bar on deletion should be as high or higher than the bar on creation (spam aside, of course) or you're just going to keep losing editors. Nobody has time to play these stupid games with the juvenile adm…

> The problem isn't with the editors, but admins who spuriously make these judgment calls.

Deletion decisions are made by editors, not admins. See, for example, the decision referenced by the author: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletio...

> It takes hours to create a new article and seconds to delete it.

I think the "seconds to delete it" process you're describing is PROD[1], which is for "non-controversial" deletions and there's no appeals process—it can be added back with no justification at any time if any editor disagrees with the deletion. The full deletion process that takes time to appeal is "Articles for Deletion,"[2] through which articles are deleted only through 7 days of consensus-building. This is the process "Bruce Faulconer" went through.

I know it's confusing, and often really frustrating. I'd encourage you to try contesting your PROD deletion if you're willing to give it another try, because it really will bring the article back instantly. It can be difficult for new editors, but users of this forum are a bit better than the average person at source editing.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Proposed_deletion

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletio...

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