Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

An Economy of Overfed Middlemen

mattstoller.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 160 posts

Re: An Economy of Overfed Middlemen

#41

Post by danaris »

jmeister wrote: post #40
danaris wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it? Or does it have more to do with the massive industry capture of politics? Not to mention the right-wing ideology of, effectively, if you can make money doing it, and hide the negative effects from the public at least a little, you're a Real American Hero.

There are many progressives who've come around to favouring mega businesses over "mom-and-pop" for: higher wages, stabler jobs, easier enforcement of regulations.. For example: Matt Yglesias

There are many people who have been steeped in our hypercapitalist society for decades and have simply accepted its premises as valid, regardless of their stated politics as a whole.

It doesn't mean that the source of this ultimately deeply destructive ideology isn't the political right.

Re: An Economy of Overfed Middlemen

#42

Post by lotsofpulp »

kqr wrote: post #22
rahimnathwani wrote: post #15

Middlemen (e.g. wholesalers and retailers) serve a valuable function. Imagine each consumer having to maintain relationships with hundreds of factory owners and tens of farmers.

Consumers and producers can form cooperatives. They are middlemen, but not overfed ones.

I would struggle to define sub 5% profit margin retailers and wholesalers as overfed.

Re: An Economy of Overfed Middlemen

#43

Post by clairity »

jasode wrote: post #30
jollyllama wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Imagine each consumer having to maintain relationships with ... tens of farmers Farmers' markets are great.

>Farmers' markets are great. Fyi if you didn't already know... the farmers' markets are themselves a type of middlemen. (At least every one I've shopped at in the USA.) The farmers' market rents out the booth spaces to vendors (farmers). It's a real-world "platform" to bring together buyers and sellers. The farmers' cost to rent the space is embedded into the prices the consumers pay. A true individual relationship w…

> "...like driving to Joel Salatin's Polyface Farms and buying broiler chickens directly from him."

reading omnivore's dilemma when it came out impulsively made me want to do that, but of course the impracticality of that quickly dawned on me. it's similarly why reading a book is a better than going and getting first-hand accounts for all our information. we've created socioeconomic structures for very good reasons, so we shouldn't want to burn them down for the tradeoffs, but rather we should address the negatives directly.

Re: An Economy of Overfed Middlemen

#44

Post by powvans »

This article feels like a poor retread of what Ben Thompson has been writing [0] and podcasting [1] about for at least the last 5 years. Even the rough sketch diagrams feel like a poor copy of what Ben does at Stratechery. The conclusion that "if we just... " is vague, reductionist, and hand wavy. These aren't simple problems and the old antitrust tools weren't designed for monopolists who focus on the demand side rather than the supply side.

[0] https://stratechery.com/aggregation-theory/

[1] https://exponent.fm/

Re: An Economy of Overfed Middlemen

#45

Post by akudha »

Centigonal wrote: post #7

Everyone from Sam Altman to Peter Thiel has been talking about this for years. Capitalists are very straightforward about this - if you want to capture value, find a way to plant your flag in some emerging market and get a monopoly on one or more parts of the value chain. Marketplace operators are especially attractive to investors, because the financials are really pretty - the marketplace provider doesn't own signi…

Capterra? Is that site really that useful practically?

Re: An Economy of Overfed Middlemen

#46

Post by clairity »

Centigonal wrote: post #7

Everyone from Sam Altman to Peter Thiel has been talking about this for years. Capitalists are very straightforward about this - if you want to capture value, find a way to plant your flag in some emerging market and get a monopoly on one or more parts of the value chain. Marketplace operators are especially attractive to investors, because the financials are really pretty - the marketplace provider doesn't own signi…

> "Everyone...Peter Thiel..."

no, not this fake thought leader. business school literally teaches cornering markets (in strategy, but also marketing), and has for decades before those guys were even born. they literally recycled this information and presented it as if they were geniuses who came up with this miraculous approach all by themselves.

Re: An Economy of Overfed Middlemen

#47

Post by Centigonal »

vsareto wrote: post #25
Centigonal wrote: post #7

Everyone from Sam Altman to Peter Thiel has been talking about this for years. Capitalists are very straightforward about this - if you want to capture value, find a way to plant your flag in some emerging market and get a monopoly on one or more parts of the value chain. Marketplace operators are especially attractive to investors, because the financials are really pretty - the marketplace provider doesn't own signi…

They do some organizing of information via their apps, which has a tangible user experience (plus the apps themselves are definitely a thing they built). Building a good marketplace is also no small feat. In concept, they are all useful abstractions over the worst case scenario: individuals only finding and talking with other individuals to get goods or services. In practice, there are definitely abuses which come do…

Not saying what they're doing isn't challenging or valuable. Like pydry said, it's a business model with a cost/benefit asymmetry - if it succeeds, you get a nice little monopoly that's difficult to disrupt. That makes it attractive to investors and very sticky, which means we'll see more and more of them pop up unless something changes.

Re: An Economy of Overfed Middlemen

#48

Post by clairity »

softwaredoug wrote: post #8

The problem is users don’t necessarily want a fractured market. It’s convenient to have one vendor. In the short term, customers value the simplicity of having just one search engine or e-commerce experience. They don’t think about the long term harms to them / the economy.

customers don't all want the same single vendor though, as we have varying needs (outside of true commodities).

Re: An Economy of Overfed Middlemen

#49

Post by zwieback »

jollyllama wrote: post #18
rahimnathwani wrote: post #15

Middlemen (e.g. wholesalers and retailers) serve a valuable function. Imagine each consumer having to maintain relationships with hundreds of factory owners and tens of farmers.

>Imagine each consumer having to maintain relationships with ... tens of farmers Farmers' markets are great.

Farmers' markets are great, yes, as entertainment for wealthy consumers with spare time, me being one of those. As a sales channel they are extremely inefficient and all told probably bad for the environment.

Re: An Economy of Overfed Middlemen

#50

Post by Centigonal »

clairity wrote: post #46
Centigonal wrote: post #7

Everyone from Sam Altman to Peter Thiel has been talking about this for years. Capitalists are very straightforward about this - if you want to capture value, find a way to plant your flag in some emerging market and get a monopoly on one or more parts of the value chain. Marketplace operators are especially attractive to investors, because the financials are really pretty - the marketplace provider doesn't own signi…

> "Everyone...Peter Thiel..." no, not this fake thought leader. business school literally teaches cornering markets (in strategy, but also marketing), and has for decades before those guys were even born. they literally recycled this information and presented it as if they were geniuses who came up with this miraculous approach all by themselves.

He's just the guy I heard say it. Unfortunately, John Rockefeller's estate and HBS don't put as much effort into marketing to startuppy-minded millenials in software like myself.

Not trying to endorse Peter Thiel's opinions or those of or anyone else in that mileau. I'm saying the folks funding all the tech companies have been using this playbook for decades.

Post reply on HN