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Electric Cars – fuel duty and road tax: how to replace £35B annual revenue

carwow.co.uk

41–50 of 360 posts

Re: Electric Cars – fuel duty and road tax: how to replace £35B annual revenue

#41

> Smart home wallbox chargers could in theory tell the electricity grid it was a car being charged, but homeowners could just plug a three-pin extension lead into a normal socket to charge their car, circumventing any such communication between grid and charge. To encourage folk to use their wall box, offer a discount rate in exchange for utility control of charging. That way load can be shifted off peak if needed.

All new chargers installed in the UK must now be smart, by law.

On top of that, it is ILLEGAL to sell and install dumb EVSEs. Does not apply to third party resales but if you can't find someone to install it, it's a moot point.

Re: Electric Cars – fuel duty and road tax: how to replace £35B annual revenue

#42

How about the government just finds a way to make do? It's kind of preposterous that we're staring an economic slowdown and high inflation in the face after decades of incomes flat-lining and the .gov is telling people to cough up more. I get that EV owners are statistically richer but you're not gonna change that by raising the TCO via taxes.

How about the government just finds a way to make do?

On the other hand most of us would like (for example) a functioning NHS. That needs good people, good facilities, and the tax revenues to pay for both. There is a real and imminent danger that our whole public health system could collapse due to a mass exodus of skilled professionals who decide they've had enough. Arguably some parts of it already have.

Behind the headlines about Ukraine and COVID and Brexit and so on are numerous mostly overlooked yet very significant problems within our society and economy. Many of those problems are only going to get worse and by extension more expensive to eventually fix if they aren't dealt with soon enough.

If we're going to prevent those things from happening in the next few years then a lot of us are going to have to pay for it (whoever is leading the government for the next two years or after the next general election). Hopefully the less well-off who are already struggling will be looked after and the burden will fall on the better-off demographics. Of course most people don't want to pay more tax but I suspect many of those who could afford to do so without suffering too much would prefer that to the alternative of literally watching a family member die because there was no ambulance available when they called 999 in a medical emergency!

Re: Electric Cars – fuel duty and road tax: how to replace £35B annual revenue

#43
post #3

"Road tax" (a levy to cover the cost of maintaining the public highway) obviously needs to be extended to cover EVs at some point. I'm surprised it hasn't already. However, broadly speaking: tax the thing you want less of. There's various strategies being raised to cover this so-called "lost revenue", including the tracking of your home electricity usage via smart boxes to tax you on charging your own car (!!) and ch…

We should split road taxes and carbon taxes, and ensure both revenue streams cover all the investment and expenses required for the sector but also to cover long-term effects on climate.

This way, we can spend the revenues from road taxes to build and maintain our infrastructure, and the realize that the latter will just make the whole car industry bankrupt overnight.

Re: Electric Cars – fuel duty and road tax: how to replace £35B annual revenue

#44
post #3

"Road tax" (a levy to cover the cost of maintaining the public highway) obviously needs to be extended to cover EVs at some point. I'm surprised it hasn't already. However, broadly speaking: tax the thing you want less of. There's various strategies being raised to cover this so-called "lost revenue", including the tracking of your home electricity usage via smart boxes to tax you on charging your own car (!!) and ch…

> There's various strategies being raised to cover this so-called "lost revenue", including the tracking of your home electricity usage via smart boxes to tax you on charging your own car (!!) and charging cars a per-mile-tax instead of on fuel. At the end of the day any implementation of the methods discussed lead to absolute tyranny. To track per-mile-tax you’re going to have either government gps tracking in real-…

> To track per-mile-tax you’re going to have either government gps tracking in real-time or cameras tracking your ever my movement. Alternatively, the government will track and then likely limit power consumption for your cars.

Maybe I'm naive, but shouldn't an odometer reading do the job just fine?

Re: Electric Cars – fuel duty and road tax: how to replace £35B annual revenue

#45
post #21

There is no "road tax" in the UK, is it? It's a fee for polluting, not using the road. I hate that it's being used as an argument against cyclists: "get off the road, you don't pay road tax". This of course also ignores that most adult cyclists also own a car.. Norway have the same issues now. Almost all new cars are electric. You don't pay purchase tax / vat when buying it. Pay less on toll roads. Cheaper to use. Et…

bicycle and pedestrians could be exempted from a road tax based on fairly simple assumption: the wear and tear is minimal compared to a car. It wouldn't even surprise me if the wear and tear is so small that it can't even be measured. But I could be wrong. It would be interesting to hear if heavy bike/pedestrian roads have higher road maintenance than those that are used lightly. My guess would be that the major wear…

There is no road tax, only vehicle excise duty which bicyclists dont pay. It goes straight into the treasury so it's not even really "used" per se it's just a way of exerting downward pressure on inflation (which is how it should be, IMHO).

Re: Electric Cars – fuel duty and road tax: how to replace £35B annual revenue

#46
The "per unit of energy" pricing of liquid fuels is quite appealing as it encourages efficiency. Even when people are using electric cars, efficiency is beneficial.

I wonder if some sort of banded electricity pricing would work - you can consume x kWh at a lower price, and then a surplus tax applies. It's fairly easy to tax public charging. That would still encourage people to seek efficient EVs.

Re: Electric Cars – fuel duty and road tax: how to replace £35B annual revenue

#47
post #30
post #19

Everyone always seems to jump from general schemes (road tax, fuel duty) to Orwellian tracking (GPS everywhere). Seems like a simple scheme of mileage tracking and net charge tracking would do. You then have an overall energy use / mile figure that you can use to price each mile so people who buy more efficient cars are rewarded, and then charge by total number of miles, so people who do fewer miles pay less.

Maybe not a long term alternative but taxing drivers behaviour via extreme penalties rather than the type of fuel or vehicle they use would not only raise revenue but may also encourage people to drive in a safer and more fuel-efficient manner? For example, overtaking a cyclist regardless of the fact that you are already approaching a stop junction should result in a fine of at least £10,000. Tailgating in a dangerou…

This sounds good until you realize it's extremely regressive and will cause the average offender to go into a debt spiral.

Re: Electric Cars – fuel duty and road tax: how to replace £35B annual revenue

#49
Or... maybe national taxes should pay for national roads as a form of national infrastructure, state or county taxes paying for state or county roads and local taxes for local roads. Isn't this the way roads were paid for before widespread use of personal vehicles?

Roads are a shared benefit for all whether you own or drive a vehicle or not. Think of deliveries and public transport and other approaches in which you personally benefit. The idea of funding roads by virtue of fuel taxes always struck me as odd.

Re: Electric Cars – fuel duty and road tax: how to replace £35B annual revenue

#50
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or it could simply be that the commonly used term for Vehicle Excise Duty is "road tax" (even if it's technically incorrect) not everything is a conspiracy

commonly used by people who disingenuously use it's etymology to imply that all 'road users' (by which they mean cyclists) rather than 'vehicle users' should pay it

I don't see anything in the article that suggests the author wants that to happen?

these hysterical responses say more about you then the people you're demonising

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