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Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

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Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

#41

The tools for EEs are old, creaky, text-based stuff from the DOS days. Time to finally turn EE into a software discipline. Then some decent tools will be developed and normal folk will be willing to design stuff.

The tools EEs used even IN the DOS days were already graphical. Tablets were used for input, pre-mouse. Workstations were expensive, because they were graphics workstations, not text terminals. The chips DOS ran on were designed on graphical layout systems.

Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

#42
EEs are pretty far away from the money. That really impacts earning potential. Most EEs who went the traditional route and want to keep doing electronics in some form but make money become Field Application Engineers (FAEs) to get closer to the sale and show their value to the company. The crustiest old engineers are buried deep within a corporation and it's hard to show value on the bottom line.

Similarly, the FAANG/MANGA folks of the world are beneficiaries of being closer to the end customer, at least in terms of always being able to track customer usage of products. And hey, some of the highest paid ones are doing some hyper scale stuff that touches billions of users. Then there's just the general markete conditions of having much more need than talent available, especially at the upper eschelons.

Credentials: 20 year EE, have the largest podcast about designing electronics (The Amp Hour, check us out)

Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

#43

Stop tying engineering to universities and the problem will be solved. People want careers, they want to solve complex problems, and we have more tooling and knowledge than ever to do so. The problem is U S. Education is squeezing it dry. In the U.K. you can go for engineering in many fields without it breaking the bank or having to compete for the top 0.1% of schools. If india, Taiwan, and china can do better than t…

While still fairly expensive, you don’t have to be in the top 0.1% to go into engineering.

Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

#44
Related articles:

https://www.theregister.com/2022/07/08/semiconductor_enginee...

https://semiwiki.com/events/314964-a-crisis-in-engineering-e...

Smallish, recentish discussions:

America's chip land has another potential shortage: Electronics engineers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32048654 - July 2022 (5 comments)

Where Are the Microelectronics Engineers? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32012660 - July 2022 (32 comments)

Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Profit margin. It's all profit margin. Software is reliably >25%, where physical manufacturing is in the single digits.

But the question is why? Shouldn’t there be the same race to single digit margins in software as well?

The marginal cost of software is basically zero. The marginal cost of hardware is high.

Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Profit margin. It's all profit margin. Software is reliably >25%, where physical manufacturing is in the single digits.

But the question is why? Shouldn’t there be the same race to single digit margins in software as well?

Marginal cost of an additional user is zero. And instant global distribution with the internet.

And then there’s the freemium B2B SaaS business model (Slack, Notion) that is just insanely lucrative…

Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surface mount isn't that big of a deal. A cheap hot air gun, a soldering iron, flux, and some solder paste are all you need to work with most BGAs, QFN, and other modern packages. PCB prototype manufacturing has never been cheaper thanks to companies like JLCPCB. With all the fantastic learning material on YouTube, open source tools like KiCad, and inexpensive chinese test equipment, the kids these days can do WAY mo…

But, I mean, you could get by with just a $10 soldering iron from RadioShack. It’s just harder to get into and tinker with is my point - which I think you just supported?

I do surface mount with a $20 hotplate from Target. A lot of parts you can even do with a soldering iron. I know it looks scary but once you give it a try you'll find it's not really any harder than through-hole and doesn't require any special equipment.

Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

#48
post #18

I moved into IT from "formal" engineering and its always frustrated me that a job that involves working on extremely expensive engines using upper level college math gets paid almost nothing compared to people who change colors on a webpage every once in a while. I've been on floors where multi-million dollar pieces of equipment are used to produce parts with obscene levels of precision being used by expert machinist…

I went from chemical engineering into data science, and I wonder this constantly. Everything about chemical engineering was much more difficult (at least what you would be expected to do in a typical job; exceptions apply). I really miss the hard sciences, but I also really do not want to take a 4x pay cut.

Also, I'm not sure about the supply and demand argument. The typical ask for a data scientist is much simpler than specialized ChemE knowledge; supply should have ramped up so quickly that comp would have fallen to typical engineering salaries long ago if that were the case.

Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

#49
post #18

I moved into IT from "formal" engineering and its always frustrated me that a job that involves working on extremely expensive engines using upper level college math gets paid almost nothing compared to people who change colors on a webpage every once in a while. I've been on floors where multi-million dollar pieces of equipment are used to produce parts with obscene levels of precision being used by expert machinist…

Software is a pure ideas business.

You'd be surprised how many people have, sell, and get venture capital for ideas without a huge upfront spend attached just to try something out.

Software is the scratch tickets of "engineering."

Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

#50
post #18

I moved into IT from "formal" engineering and its always frustrated me that a job that involves working on extremely expensive engines using upper level college math gets paid almost nothing compared to people who change colors on a webpage every once in a while. I've been on floors where multi-million dollar pieces of equipment are used to produce parts with obscene levels of precision being used by expert machinist…

There's a huge demand for Software Developers in every industry in the last few years. Retail, Finance, Marketing, etc.

Also, looking at a Marketing Company for example. There would be a ton of need for Software Developers, but generally no need for an electrical engineer.

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