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Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

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Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#41

Post by ricardobayes »

88840-8855 wrote: post #4
_8j50 wrote: post #3

Covid shut down most LNG production in north america, good opportunity to get back to fracking and ruining the environment in US and Canada for the right price, theh can use tanker ships not just pipes unless they simply can't move that volume with ships.

there is no lng supply possible for Europe. you can frack as much as you want and ship as much as you want. the next 4 quarters will decide about the downfall of Europe (and ultimately the US).

There is, through Spain. There are existing pipelines from Algeria and Morocco.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#42

Post by ibeckermayer »

Related content

"Trump: Germany 'Totally Controlled By Russia'" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LLZBVTid4I

German bureaucrats laugh at Trump after he says the country could become totally dependent on Russian energy: https://twitter.com/marcusgilmer/status/1044604107997237249

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#43

Post by MichaelRazum »

jonathan-adly wrote: post #25

There are solutions, just unpopular and require a political class that is not fickle and weak. Solution #1. Capitulate to Putin and treat Russia as a regional power that can gobble and punish its neighbors when they stray too far. Solution #2. Forget about the climate for the next 5 years, turn on all coal, nuclear powerplants. Solution #3. Put the Euro printer in overdrive and pay whatever price needed for the littl…

According to the EU nuclear power is green. So solution #2 would save the climate, based on that logic. Actually inflation was already there before the war, so it is mostly because of #3.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#44

Post by nickserv »

Gravityloss wrote: post #23

Unfortunately Brunsbüttel terminal only finally got the go ahead in January 2022 and it will take 3.5 years to build. It's anyway a good alternative source. https://www.gem.wiki/Brunsb%C3%BCttel_LNG_Terminal Increasing insulation and installing and building more heat pumps are obvious ways to save on gas. Italy used some big EU subsidies to pay 100% of people's home and house renovations. Would something like that be…

A lot of manufacturing for these materials aren't in Europe though. New factories and associated logistics chains, finding and training workers, these things are difficult to set up in a few months, never mind the actual process of renovating millions of homes.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#46

Post by inglor_cz »

pastor_bob wrote: post #13

Quoted post unavailable.

Nordstream 2 and the general concept of "Germany buys tons of Russian gas" was very controversial in Poland and the Baltics, too.

Most of the former Eastern Bloc countries were distrustful of Russia in general, much more so after Russia took Crimea in 2014.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#47

Post by spaceman_2020 »

hash07e wrote: post #5

Errr... How about turn on those Nuclear plants?

Besides heating, natural gas is a major component in many industrial processes. It's also used as input for a wide variety of petrochemical products. Can't make those from nuclear power.

People tend to overlook that nearly a quarter of all oil & gas goes into non-energy use. I can't think of a single modern product that doesn't use petroleum-based products in some way.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#48

Post by jonathan-adly »

throwawaysleep wrote: post #34
jonathan-adly wrote: post #25

There are solutions, just unpopular and require a political class that is not fickle and weak. Solution #1. Capitulate to Putin and treat Russia as a regional power that can gobble and punish its neighbors when they stray too far. Solution #2. Forget about the climate for the next 5 years, turn on all coal, nuclear powerplants. Solution #3. Put the Euro printer in overdrive and pay whatever price needed for the littl…

> Solution #2. Forget about the climate for the next 5 years, turn on all coal, nuclear powerplants. Nuclear power is perfectly compatible with climate goals.

I am with ya there. But the Germans populace have been thoroughly brain-washed that nuclear is bad. So, better just to tell them : "its bad, but needed because we are in a war."

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#49

Post by acdha »

shafyy wrote: post #16
hash07e wrote: post #5

Errr... How about turn on those Nuclear plants?

Natural gas cannot be replaced by nuclear energy (or any other source of electricity) for many applications, at least not in the short term. For example here in Germany, many homes use gas boilers (heaters) for heating space and water. You would need to rebuild a lot of infrastructure to use electricity (which Germany plans to do, but obviously this will take years if not decades).

You're forgetting two things: not all natural gas is used for heating and Russia does not supply 100% of the natural gas used in Europe. If a nuclear plant can generate enough electricity to shut down a natural gas plant, the natural gas which would have been burned for electrical production is then available for applications like heating which are hard to quickly replace.

Russia supplies about 40-45% of the EU's total natural gas, so there's a big question about how quickly imports can be scaled up. The energy mix in the EU electrical grid is roughly a quarter natural gas so there's a fairly large amount which could potentially be shifted to another electrical source.

That leaves the question of how well all of those measures come together along with efficiency improvements and conservation (e.g. getting everyone in the EU to turn their thermostat down by 1°C would be roughly ⅓ of the total Russian imports according to https://www.iea.org/news/how-europe-can-cut-natural-gas-impo...). Given how seriously every government in NATO has been taking this, I would not be surprised to see things moving at faster paces than we're used to.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#50

Post by nootropicat »

>Both countries drew the ire of the others, and for a time, it seemed as if the European Union's internal market would break apart under pressure from the crisis due to the egoism of the member states. >A repeat this time around is to be avoided at all costs.

Because this time solidarity is in Germany's interests, duh.

>Germany Blocks Joint Gas Purchases

>But resistance is coming from large natural gas utilities in Germany, like RWE, and from industrial customers as well. They want to buy their own gas and fear that they won't be allocated sufficient supplies by the EU.

Seems like the German definition of solidarity is that they get gas from others.

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