Live data from Hacker News

Smalltalk Squeak 6.0

raw.githubusercontent.com

41–50 of 73 posts

Re: Smalltalk Squeak 6.0

#41
post #39
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is true, that there is uncollected garbage in the original Xerox ST80 image. I've built some tools to analyze the image and also a VM which can be interrupted at any time to analyze the current state of the image (see https://github.com/rochus-keller/Smalltalk ). There are two zombie processes (OID 6662 and 19ba). There are also a couple of BlockContext and MethodContext which have a nil sender and a reference to…

Is there uncollected garbage in the Smalltalk Squeak 6.0 image?

I have no information about this. Squeak uses a different image format, incompatible with my tools.

Re: Smalltalk Squeak 6.0

#42
post #40
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deploying an application was always an adventure. You could never be completely sure that it didn't contain things it shouldn't.

For some meaning of "contain things it shouldn't": Given that the base image we started working with didn't "contain things it shouldn't" why could we not be completely sure that base image + source code fileIn didn't "contain things it shouldn't" ?

First, as most other companies using ST we were not working on the original image, but on a company-specific one that had been in use for a long time and contained a lot of company-specific stuff. On the other hand, there were also things in the original images of the commercial STs that one would or should not ship with the product.

Re: Smalltalk Squeak 6.0

#43
post #9

> Switches the default bytecode set to SistaV1. This lays the basis for a new generation of VM optimizations (Sista: Speculative Inlining Smalltalk Architecture). With Sista, blocks are represented by CompiledBlocks and instantiated as FullBlockClosures, the stability of which has been improved in the course of this switch (fixed bugs in FullBlockClosure >> #= and InstructionStream >> #scanForInstructionSequence:). P…

Is there a specification for the SistaV1 bytecodes?

Re: Smalltalk Squeak 6.0

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m reminded of junk DNA.

I mean, Kay was a biologist :)

Haha.

Alan Kay wrote: "At Utah sometime after Nov 66 when, influenced by Sketchpad, Simula,

the design for the ARPAnet, the Burroughs B5000, and my background in

Biology and Mathematics, I thought of an architecture for

programming. It was probably in 1967 when someone asked me what I was

doing, and I said: "It's object-oriented programming".

The original conception of it had the following parts.

  - I thought of objects being like biological cells and/or individual 
computers on a network, only able to communicate with messages (so

messaging came at the very beginning -- it took a while to see how to

do messaging in a programming language efficiently enough to be

useful)."

http://userpage.fu-berlin.de/~ram/pub/pub_jf47ht81Ht/doc_kay...

Re: Smalltalk Squeak 6.0

#45
post #42
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some meaning of "contain things it shouldn't": Given that the base image we started working with didn't "contain things it shouldn't" why could we not be completely sure that base image + source code fileIn didn't "contain things it shouldn't" ?

First, as most other companies using ST we were not working on the original image, but on a company-specific one that had been in use for a long time and contained a lot of company-specific stuff. On the other hand, there were also things in the original images of the commercial STs that one would or should not ship with the product.

Which is why image trimming tools did exist.

Re: Smalltalk Squeak 6.0

#46

Shouldn't this be Squeak Smalltalk 6.0? I'm glad that Squeak continues to embrace the Smalltalk name, community, and history - and doesn't take the Pharo approach of trying to pretend that they aren't Smalltalk.

No, it should not:

  A couple of years ago, we started this project called Squeak, which is simply not an attempt to give the world a free Smalltalk, but an attempt to give the world a bootstrapping mechanism for something much better than Smalltalk, and when you fool around Squeak, please, please, think of it from that standpoint. -- Alan Kay

Re: Smalltalk Squeak 6.0

#47
post #45
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, as most other companies using ST we were not working on the original image, but on a company-specific one that had been in use for a long time and contained a lot of company-specific stuff. On the other hand, there were also things in the original images of the commercial STs that one would or should not ship with the product.

Which is why image trimming tools did exist.

I had Envy in later projects, which was very useful, but you simply had to trust it, which is not the same as to be completely sure.

Re: Smalltalk Squeak 6.0

#48
Lovely to see the new Squeak release on here. There are some really exciting new third party things happening too, such as a visual Smalltalk editor called Sandblocks. I made a demo of it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnbSocgf-xc

Also check out https://Squeak.slack.com for a nice discussion group.

Re: Smalltalk Squeak 6.0

#49
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably he could write his own code- and data-munging tools in Smalltalk and invoke them straight from the running image -- kinda like what you can do with Emacs Lisp.

That's fascinating. At least Emacs comes with an editor, can't say as much for Squeak. I mean, it has AN editor, its just not very good compared to something like Emacs or vi, and I'm talking editor functionality, not everything else. It's more like a lightly enhanced Text Area. But maybe he put a lot of work into it to be a better Perl editor.

That was my point as I'm familiar with Smalltalk and Emacs/Vi.

Re: Smalltalk Squeak 6.0

#50

Shouldn't this be Squeak Smalltalk 6.0? I'm glad that Squeak continues to embrace the Smalltalk name, community, and history - and doesn't take the Pharo approach of trying to pretend that they aren't Smalltalk.

> … trying to pretend…

That used-to-be my feeling too.

Now I have more appreciation of the amount of archaic baggage that is dragged into discussion once the label Smalltalk is attached :-)

Post reply on HN