Live data from Hacker News

Profanity Doesn't Work

hanselman.com

41–50 of 93 posts

Re: Profanity Doesn't Work

#41
Profanity is popular in the tech community because it conveys that we don't give a fuck about offending people as we challenge existing norms. People are going to object to that; if they're not offended, we're not doing a good enough job.

Re: Profanity Doesn't Work

#42
WTF? Really? Are we going to comment on "is swearing right or wrong", now? It's a personal choice and that's Holman's way of doing things. That's part of his persona.

I, personally, would never read holman if it wasn't for swearing. People swear, they build professions over it. If you don't like it, don't do it. Get over it.

PS: More examples of people who sear when working - http://ittybiz.com , Garry Vaynerchuck, me.

Re: Profanity Doesn't Work

#43
post #17
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, there is an effect on the reader. Being indirect softens the blow for folks who are offended by it, much like a euphemism does.

People are always offended for "other" people, I would be curious to hear the thoughts of a person who is truly offended by the word fuck. Does it have some magic powers that cause it to fire off a pain circuit in mutant brains?

It almost does. I'm not offended by the word fuck, because English is not my native language. I have little emotional attachment to profanities of other languages, so they don't really affect me.

But there is one in my native language. It is not the equivalent of fuck, but something usually considered a milder swear word. I'm almost physically unable to say or type that word. If I try to force it out I get panicky and my chest starts to hurt. It is the strangest feeling and when added to that the fact that I'm completely aware how irrational and, well, stupid that is just increases the mental scuffle I'm going through.

I know exactly when I developed this. I was about 8 years old when one of my friends trashed something I had made and called me names. I went to home and complained to my mother what a twat this guy had been. I quoted what the guy called me and used the special word. My mother was visibly shocked, took a moment, and very calmly informed me how that was the worst word to say. And that's it. She didn't punish me or yell at me, just explained that there literally wasn't any worse word I could have uttered. According to her. And that hit me. I had done something bad that I, or anyone else, couldn't top. I hit peak profanity. I learned that reception from her and took it to heart and haven't used the word since.

Now, saying it out loud clearly is hard for me. But what about hearing it? Well I wouldn't use the word "offended". It is not your problem that I have this emotional connection to a certain word. If you didn't try to offend me with it I'm not offended. But I do go through a certain train of thoughts after hearing it. First I get a little shocked because I wasn't prepared for it. Then, because now my focus is on that word, I repeat it in my head as we all do with words we read or concentrate on (altough many 'speed-readers' say they can read without verbalizing words, this is not possible. You can limit it, but not turn it off completely). And verbalizing the word in my head causes a similar reaction, but milder, as saying it does. For a second I can't concentrate on what you are saying because there's something going between my ears and I need a second to calm it down. And after that it is still nimbling in my thoughts for some while before I forget it.

It IS kinda like when someone insults me. First you get shocked when someone really stabs you, then you get various emotions like anger, frustration, feelings for vengeance, sadness, and what not. Then you calm down but the memory of the feelings is still there for a while. Then you forget it and move on. It is the same thing with me and hearing that word, except I don't feed offended and I have nothing against you. I have something against myself and that is not a pleasant state of mental affairs.

If you are trying to present something to me or lecture me about some subject, I don't think that is the reaction you are looking for.

edit: oh and it isn't anything religious as me and my mother are both atheists. The f-word in my language means vagina and this word is the male counterpart.

Re: Profanity Doesn't Work

#44

"The difference between the almost right word & the right word is really a large matter--it's the difference between the lightning bug and the lightning." - Mark Twain There are occasions where only the word fuck will do. They're less common than what the habitually profane might guess (and I regrettably count myself among that group). Still – there is a talent to swearing. Part of it is delivery. Part of it is timin…

In support of what you're saying - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_g-EOWoads

Re: Profanity Doesn't Work

#45
The amount of swearing that is tolerated is a function of geography. To the rest of the world, Americans are a bit prissy.

I'm from Norway. To me a typical American's reaction to swearing is more offensive than the swearing itself. It offends me because because there being "forbidden words" is indeed a terribly childish notion.

In fact, if you are from Norway, it takes a bit of time getting used to the childish reaction most Americans will have even to relatively mild expletives.

(And I am not even from the north of Norway where swearing is more or less a byproduct of how the respiratory system works).

It is just language. Grow up.

Re: Profanity Doesn't Work

#47
post #9

What makes swearing any more offensive than say, not wearing a tie at some conference? Is there anything inherent in the tie and words or is there a cultural attachment to these things that raises emotions? So then, do we always cater to the current cultural trends, or do we pave our own ways in some way? Some times we're not always looking to please, attempts to be polite can lead to concealment of details that matt…

I find ties offensive.

Re: Profanity Doesn't Work

#48
post #14

However, you take no chances of offending by not swearing, but you guarantee to offend someone if you do. Good. Fuck them. Believe me, we aren't going to get along. Best to know now. Also, I believe in evolution, think the earth is more than 4000 years old and I support gay marriage. That offends a ton of people and expressing that opinion has the same effect on those "relationships" as saying "fuck". You might think…

Sounds like you're a bigot about bigots? Take a look at your own hypocrisy

Re: Profanity Doesn't Work

#49
Though I don't get behind him 100 percent, the man does have a bit of a point--especially for younger founders in a startup's initial phases. If you want the job and the respect that comes with it, act the part. Obviously the rub here lies in the speaker's ability to deliver the desired effect. But sometimes dropping an f-bomb, especially in a presentation, makes it seem like you're just trying too hard.

Re: Profanity Doesn't Work

#50
This is totally a matter of culture.

My father worked for a (US) national company that actually required etiquette training for their representatives from the northeast, because they were so much more prone to swearing in casual conversation, that it would cause others to be drawn aback and brought out of the conversation. Not to mention when you get to international differences. My australian exchange student in high school would drop 'fuck' as though it was his middle name.

But regardless, I thought one of the biggest points of hacker news was the ability to grok out meaning of news and opinions, and not debate the effectiveness of its communication.

Post reply on HN