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Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

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Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#41

Post by Aaronstotle »

daniel-cussen wrote: post #27

I agree with this. I have said it's the only crypto worth participating in because it's the only crypto that originated for idealistic reasons. In that capacity it is similar to gold, which in the Golden Age (something everybody talked about in Antiquity and I decided to believe, but I've never encountered anybody else believing in) was openly swapped around as little inventions (you can make all kinds of shit with g…

Monero had no pre-mine either, and addresses the bitcoin privacy gaps. Most cryptos are obviously get rich quick schemes, I don't think it means you should immediately discard every other token.

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#42

Post by papercrane »

knicholes wrote: post #28

Does anyone know how this affects taxes?

In the US? It doesn't at all. The SEC chair's opinion on if something is a community vs. a security has no bearing on what the IRS thinks. The distinction only really matters when deciding which agency is responsible for enforcing any regulations.

As far as the IRS is concerned they treat them the same for capital gains.

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#44

Post by vmoore »

Finance newbie here, but what is a 'security'? I looked it up, but can't grok it despite people's best attempt to describe it. All the articles can't sum it up in an ELI5 way. What's the TL;DR way of describing a security, and how does BTC fare in this? Is BTC a security?

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#45

Post by eternauta3k »

daniel-cussen wrote: post #27

I agree with this. I have said it's the only crypto worth participating in because it's the only crypto that originated for idealistic reasons. In that capacity it is similar to gold, which in the Golden Age (something everybody talked about in Antiquity and I decided to believe, but I've never encountered anybody else believing in) was openly swapped around as little inventions (you can make all kinds of shit with g…

It's ironic for a comment about Bitcoin to call people assholes for hoarding. Cryptocurrency is all about making a system which works because people act in their self-interest. If they wanted people to use it and not hoard it, they should've made it easier to spend, or harder to hoard, i.e. inflationary.

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#47

Post by ianferrel »

vmoore wrote: post #44

Finance newbie here, but what is a 'security'? I looked it up, but can't grok it despite people's best attempt to describe it. All the articles can't sum it up in an ELI5 way. What's the TL;DR way of describing a security, and how does BTC fare in this? Is BTC a security?

Under US law (Howey test) a security is something that

1. You invest money in

2. Along with others

3. With the expectation of profit

4. Derived from the efforts of others

ETA: (the others in #2 need not be the same others in #4)

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#48

Post by Animats »

TimPC wrote: post #10

This is huge. Essentially if they find anyone sold crypto to unaccredited investors they would be engaging in illegal sales of a security. This may lead to lawsuits where crypto sellers find they are on the hook for the losses of people they illegally sold to. It may also lead to jail time for a substantial portion of the crypto community.

Essentially if they find anyone sold crypto to unaccredited investors they would be engaging in illegal sales of a security.

Well, yes. That's the Howey test. It's pretty simple. A lot of crypto issuers liked to think it didn't apply to them, but the SEC has been saying consistently that it does. There's argument over whether crypto brokers, exchanges, or miners are subject to regulation. But anybody who created and issued a cryptocurrency is clearly making a public offering of a security.

The crypto community got away with a lot during the "line goes up" phase, because the SEC usually acts only when investors lose money. After a 2 trillion US dollar loss in market cap, that phase is over. There will be more complaints and more enforcement actions.

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#49

Post by AtlasBarfed »

uncomputation wrote: post #16

Bitcoin has less foundation- or team-based leadership that have plagued other crypto projects. This leadership (eg Ethereum foundation) gives crypto projects the air of legitimacy, but also the impression, as Hinman put it, that some managerial work and direction is expected, tipping the scale towards security. If the network becomes decentralized to the point where no one party has sway over its direction (even a go…

If Ethereum can be changed from Proof of Work to Proof of Stake on a "whim", how is it not centralized in some capacity?

Re: Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

#50

Post by mistrial9 »

Alex3917 wrote: post #29
uncomputation wrote: post #16

Bitcoin has less foundation- or team-based leadership that have plagued other crypto projects. This leadership (eg Ethereum foundation) gives crypto projects the air of legitimacy, but also the impression, as Hinman put it, that some managerial work and direction is expected, tipping the scale towards security. If the network becomes decentralized to the point where no one party has sway over its direction (even a go…

How is this any different than something like GRIN? I'm not involved in either community, but at least superficially they certainly look similar.

GRIN does not move more than $1B USD per hour?
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