The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case • Hacker News Board

Re: The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

#41

Post by thinkcomp » Thu, Nov 03, 2011, 2:46 AM UTC

patio11 wrote: post #3

That is what disruptive innovation looks like. "Oh look, a multi-billion dollar problem people were trying to solve by getting two sides of the market to simultaneously ubiquitously install new hardware. How about we solve it with stuff they already own plus new software instead?"

I respectfully disagree. This is what an investment from Visa looks like with really good design. Not everyone was trying to get both sides to adopt new hardware, either.

As long as Square uses cards for funding, it will be robbing the poor to pay the rich just like every other card company. To me, "disruptive" in the payments world means no cards, period.

Re: The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

#42

Post by thinkcomp » Thu, Nov 03, 2011, 2:50 AM UTC

gojomo wrote: post #39

thinkcomp wrote: post #34

It's ironic to see this article coming from Farhad Manjoo. I wrote a response to his original piece a while ago: http://www.aarongreenspan.com/writing/essay.html?id=51 What Square has done with card case is pretty slick, but at present it doesn't scale. Paying with your name doesn't work at Wal-mart. And funding with your plastic credit or debit card doesn't work especially well for most coffee shops or other small b…

Why wouldn't it scale to Wal-mart? Even with a dozen people with the same name in the store, a cashier can quickly pick a matching face: everyone is good at that (except for prosopagnosics). And that's without assuming Wal-mart adds any extra hardware that could narrow the position of handhelds to individual registers.

That's a pretty long scroll box to find the person in the first place. Or an added step as you key in the first few letters of the person's name. At large retailers or QSR chains that put a premium on fast checkout, neither option will fly.

I obviously appreciate the simplicity of paying with your face.

Re: The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

#43

Post by Lewisham » Thu, Nov 03, 2011, 2:53 AM UTC

hugh3 wrote: post #19

My problem with all of these systems is the same: I'm disorganized, I forget to charge my phone or bring it along, and so the chances of me having a fully charged, working, switched-on phone with me when I want to buy something are far lower than my chances of having a wallet.

This is certainly the case in the US, where you're most likely to have driven somewhere, so you're going to have your wallet/purse as you need your driver's license.

That said, there is still some friction when it comes to using a card... some places want you to sign, some don't, some decide on the day... people offer you a paper receipt for a $2 transaction ("No, I really don't need it.")... it's sometimes finicky trying to deal with a wallet full of cards... It's all not all that much really, but there is still room for improvement.

What I really like about this is the end-run around NFC. NFC really doesn't solve the problem, because is is just as easy to pull out a wallet as it is to pull out a phone. Here you don't need to rummage, you say what you want and go. That's 15-20 seconds of your life back per transaction.

Re: The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

#44

Post by zobzu » Thu, Nov 03, 2011, 2:53 AM UTC

On the other hand:

- anyone in the room knowing your name can get free cookies (or anything else) - signal travel through air, so physical hack is not necessary anymore - its still tied to your phone ;-)

the rest is pretty cool, but i'd like to confirm manually each transaction thank you very much. I want to keep control of MY stuff, my money, my phone. My my my.

Re: The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

#45

Post by dpark » Thu, Nov 03, 2011, 2:56 AM UTC

thinkcomp wrote: post #41

patio11 wrote: post #3

That is what disruptive innovation looks like. "Oh look, a multi-billion dollar problem people were trying to solve by getting two sides of the market to simultaneously ubiquitously install new hardware. How about we solve it with stuff they already own plus new software instead?"

I respectfully disagree. This is what an investment from Visa looks like with really good design. Not everyone was trying to get both sides to adopt new hardware, either. As long as Square uses cards for funding, it will be robbing the poor to pay the rich just like every other card company. To me, "disruptive" in the payments world means no cards, period.

And why exactly do you imagine that Square couldn't debit directly from a checking account in the future (as the article mentioned)?

Re: The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

#46

Post by bigiain » Thu, Nov 03, 2011, 2:56 AM UTC

Figs wrote: post #28

> Paying for stuff with your phone sounds awesome until you stop to think about it. Uh, it doesn't sound awesome to me at all. It sounds annoying and frustrating. Swiping a credit card is already pretty simple. > then tell the cashier your name Yeah, because that works great. My name is fairly common, and cashiers still manage to get it wrong, especially if it's noisy. Also, what happens when three "John Smiths" walk…

" ... why couldn't I just order on the phone?"

Like this?

http://www.beanscenemag.com.au/news/article/hub-it-launches-...

Re: The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

#47

Post by lazerwalker » Thu, Nov 03, 2011, 2:59 AM UTC

thinkcomp wrote: post #41

patio11 wrote: post #3

That is what disruptive innovation looks like. "Oh look, a multi-billion dollar problem people were trying to solve by getting two sides of the market to simultaneously ubiquitously install new hardware. How about we solve it with stuff they already own plus new software instead?"

I respectfully disagree. This is what an investment from Visa looks like with really good design. Not everyone was trying to get both sides to adopt new hardware, either. As long as Square uses cards for funding, it will be robbing the poor to pay the rich just like every other card company. To me, "disruptive" in the payments world means no cards, period.

You don't think moving people away from physically using cards for the transactions is a big first step?

With the transaction taking place without any physical handling of any paper or plastic, using a card as a payment source is just an implementation detail. It'll be trivial in the future for Square to add alternate funding sources without any pain to the user, and in the mean time it drives adoption because people are already used to the idea of giving Square their credit card info.

Re: The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

#48

Post by sausagefeet » Thu, Nov 03, 2011, 2:59 AM UTC

gojomo wrote: post #39

thinkcomp wrote: post #34

It's ironic to see this article coming from Farhad Manjoo. I wrote a response to his original piece a while ago: http://www.aarongreenspan.com/writing/essay.html?id=51 What Square has done with card case is pretty slick, but at present it doesn't scale. Paying with your name doesn't work at Wal-mart. And funding with your plastic credit or debit card doesn't work especially well for most coffee shops or other small b…

Why wouldn't it scale to Wal-mart? Even with a dozen people with the same name in the store, a cashier can quickly pick a matching face: everyone is good at that (except for prosopagnosics). And that's without assuming Wal-mart adds any extra hardware that could narrow the position of handhelds to individual registers.

I wonder how they'll keep people from putting products on someone else's tab.

Re: The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

#49

Post by reissbaker » Thu, Nov 03, 2011, 3:00 AM UTC

thinkcomp wrote: post #41

patio11 wrote: post #3

That is what disruptive innovation looks like. "Oh look, a multi-billion dollar problem people were trying to solve by getting two sides of the market to simultaneously ubiquitously install new hardware. How about we solve it with stuff they already own plus new software instead?"

I respectfully disagree. This is what an investment from Visa looks like with really good design. Not everyone was trying to get both sides to adopt new hardware, either. As long as Square uses cards for funding, it will be robbing the poor to pay the rich just like every other card company. To me, "disruptive" in the payments world means no cards, period.

What were the non-hardware non-card payment methods attempted? I'm familiar with NFC, and somewhat intimately familiar with Square and its card-based rivals, but the only alternatives I know of are those pay-through-your-carrier attempts that are an even bigger can of worms than a card company. Were there others?

To reference your Visa point (which I suspect wasn't serious), Square was card-based long before the Visa investment.

Re: The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

#50

Post by gojomo » Thu, Nov 03, 2011, 3:00 AM UTC

thinkcomp wrote: post #42

gojomo wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why wouldn't it scale to Wal-mart? Even with a dozen people with the same name in the store, a cashier can quickly pick a matching face: everyone is good at that (except for prosopagnosics). And that's without assuming Wal-mart adds any extra hardware that could narrow the position of handhelds to individual registers.

That's a pretty long scroll box to find the person in the first place. Or an added step as you key in the first few letters of the person's name. At large retailers or QSR chains that put a premium on fast checkout, neither option will fly. I obviously appreciate the simplicity of paying with your face.

I doubt any firstname+lastname (or even just firstname+last_initial) situation would require a scroll box... you could fit 20+ recognizable faces on a screen. Sort them by age and in the few cases where there are that many collisions, cashiers would know just where to look.

Keying the name is a bigger issue... so I suspect terminals in larger retailers will eventually just detect the N nearest pay-eligible handhelds.