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Solend seized $170M of user funds

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Re: Solend seized $170M of user funds

#41
post #32
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought there was a 10 minute rule. But actually I can still edit the headline and have. It's pretty big news imo.

You might want to remove the editorializing in your title as well.

This is a correct description, though. From the quote in the article (emphasis added):

> [A large liquidation] could cause chaos, putting a strain on the Solana network. Liquidators would be especially active and spamming the liquidate function, which has been known to be a factor causing Solana to go down in the past.

> Letting a liquidation of this size to happen on-chain is extremely risky. DEX liquidity isn’t deep enough to handle a sale of this size and could cause cascading effects. Additionally, liquidators will be incentivized to spam the network in an effort to win very lucrative liquidations. This has been known to cause load issues for Solana in the past which would exacerbate the problems at hand.

So, according to Solend, there are two issues at stake here:

1. The network might have technical problems processing the amount of transactions.

2. DEX liquidity isn’t deep enough to handle a sale of this size and could cause cascading effects

What they mean by this second point is that, should a sale happen, then:

1. not enough people will stand willing to buy at a favorable price ("liquidity isn't deep enough")

2. this price crash could cause others to get liquidated in turn ("cascading effects")

This is a statement about the impacts on prices, so IMO it's not editorialized.

Re: Solend seized $170M of user funds

#42

How did the "whale" have so much invested in the market but such little voting rights?

They don't have voting rights because they don't have SOL. They don't have SOL because they put it in there to get USDC+USDT. If they don't believe in the depth of the SOL/USD(C|T) books this could just be a way to sell SOL or go short SOL. This whale is probably just happy to default on the loan and get liquidated at this point.

> This whale is probably just happy to default on the loan and get liquidated at this point.

Understandable but absurd given the systematic risk.

Re: Solend seized $170M of user funds

#43
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I misattributed this in a big way. > nor was the purpose specifically to protect Solana's price. I think it was. What else would the purpose be? Note that I think the true purpose of "preventing Solana network downtime" would be to protect the price. They're trying to avoid cascading liquidations down to zero, because everyone involved in the governance is holding substantial amounts of Solana. I think letting…

This is entirely about a single a project trying to prevent cascading issues within itself. Claiming this is about Solana itself is a lie and this post should be deleted.

> This is entirely about a single a project trying to prevent cascading issues within itself. Claiming this is about Solana itself is a lie and this post should be deleted.

I'm trying to understand this, but it's beyond me. Can someone ELI5? Here's what I get:

Someone borrowed $108M (in USDC and USDT) and put up 5.7M SOL ($170M USD) as collateral, with the terms that if SOL should fall the lender can liquidate the SOL to recoup their loss; in this case, if SOL reaches $22.30, they can recoup ~$20M USD. This all sounds like a perfectly normal lending process.

SOL is (was) currently at $32, but the claim is that the borrower seems to have no interest in taking any action and allowing the liquidation to occur. Question: who's making this claim and on what basis?

The next claim is that this liquidation, if it were allowed to occur, would cause the price of SOL to fall even further, which also makes sense. The market cap of Solana seems to be ~11.5B (billion with a B); $20M shouldn't be the end of the world? 24hr volume is ~$2B, so this would be 1%. Question: why is allowing this liquidation the end of the world?

Last question: what does any of this have to do with Solend? Are they the ones that lent the $108M out, or are they just the middle man? If the former, is the concern that they won't be able to recoup their losses under the terms of the contract and falling price of SOL?

Re: Solend seized $170M of user funds

#45

One of the themes in pro-crypto writings has been the idea that as long as you “do your own research” then the bad things won’t happen on your chosen cryptocurrency. The prevailing idea (among pro-crypto spaces) is that bad things only happen to other people who deserve them because they didn’t do the right research. Recently we’re seeing the bad things happen in more and more mainstream chains. Even famous NFT propo…

Most of the things that cause these problems, like stolen apes, would not work on Bitcoin as it lacks smart contract functionality.

Bitcoin has some scripting[0] functionality, and its non-fungibility[1][2] can facilitate NFT-like colored coins[3][4]

[0] https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script

[1] https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Fungibility

[2] https://sethforprivacy.com/posts/fungibility-graveyard/

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colored_Coins

[4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=889JSfIaPzs

Re: Solend seized $170M of user funds

#46
post #9

Sorry, I've read this again and now I think this has little to do with Solana and entirely to do with Solend, and I think they're separate. Maybe someone who knows more about the space can clarify things. I now presume the funds needed to be deposited in Solend's smart contract in order for the trader to borrow the funds against his collateral, and Solend is pushing a patch in order to modify the code so they can sei…

I'm only surprised why would the Solend team care about crashing the price of Solana. Why would the Solana care either for that matter (I don't know if they are the same people though). If it crashes because of a sudden bulk market liquidation then it is just working as intended, and eventually the price of SOL will recover if there is user confidence.

Heh, user confidence comes from the price. If the price goes near zero, many people will leave and never return.

Re: Solend seized $170M of user funds

#47
post #35
post #8

The current headline "Solana just seized $170MM of user funds to prevent a decrease in Solana's price" is factually incorrect. A project on Solana, called "Solend", froze $170m of funds deposited into its protocol. "Solana" didn't seize the funds, nor was the purpose specifically to protect Solana's price.

Also, it looks like the liquidation was pre approved by the contract that the whale deposited into. It was gonna happen regardless. They are doing this to change the way it is handled (off the chain instead). I’m not sure about the implications but even Solend did not seize anything. I still think this fucked up but it had nothing to do with solana.

Right, the contract definitely allows Solend to seize the collateral at certain collateral ratios, but I can’t tell if this change just affects how they liquidate when that ratio hits, or it pre-emptively does so now, while the price is far from hitting that ratio.

Edit: okay it’s the latter. But remember this is not a seizure as in, just taking it, but also forgiving some of the debt at the same time.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31802692

Re: Solend seized $170M of user funds

#48
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, it looks like the liquidation was pre approved by the contract that the whale deposited into. It was gonna happen regardless. They are doing this to change the way it is handled (off the chain instead). I’m not sure about the implications but even Solend did not seize anything. I still think this fucked up but it had nothing to do with solana.

Smart contracts are supposed to embody "code is law". It's not very lawful to then switch the liquidation with a vague "sell OTC over an undetermined amount of time".

I agree. They abused their power and perhaps they should not even be able do it technically (at least without forking the chain).

Just wanted to clarify what dhey did.

Re: Solend seized $170M of user funds

#49
This is a fight between whales, nothing more. If the average "retail" coin holder thinks they have any influence, they are dead wrong.

This is the cryptocurrency reality where the small man is overpowered by the bourgeoisie who own so much more capital that they only need to fear each other.

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