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Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

unibas.ch

41–50 of 216 posts

Re: Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

#41
Full paper here: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41398-022-01977-z

Skip down to Figure 1 to see the chart. Note that the response to placebo is normally extremely strong in depression studies, so it’s normal to see both groups improve drastically like this.

The only thing that jumps out to me is that the probiotic group started with HAM-D depression inventory scores that were notably higher. When measuring absolute reduction of HAM-D scores, this actually leaves the more depressed patients with more room to improve and can therefore inflate the perceived effectiveness of their response, placebo or otherwise. And indeed, both groups had basically identical scores at the end of the trial. They only really diverged at follow-up where the probiotic group had improved slightly more than placebo.

I’ve seen enough probiotic stories that failed to pan out later that I’d take this one with a huge grain of salt. Trying probiotics might be worthwhile if you can afford them, but the probiotic-depression link never seems to actually play out from online anecdotes of people taking them. Note that we’ve been seeing small studies about this exact topic for a long, long time.

Re: Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

#42
post #28

Sample size of 1 here, but just hear me out. Probiotics are a cheap and low-risk. If you have any general inflammation type issues that don't seem to have a cause, it might be worthwhile to just try probiotics. My Dr. told me to try them for a digestive issue - and they sort of helped that. But a handful of other things unexpectedly improved. Acid reflux went from really bad to barely noticeable, and my skin really c…

What was the bacteria you introduced to your system? I’m on the market for some.

Lactobacillus rhamnosus. It's the strain in Culturelle. Expensive compared to others but still cheap.

Re: Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

#43

Sample size of 1 here, but just hear me out. Probiotics are a cheap and low-risk. If you have any general inflammation type issues that don't seem to have a cause, it might be worthwhile to just try probiotics. My Dr. told me to try them for a digestive issue - and they sort of helped that. But a handful of other things unexpectedly improved. Acid reflux went from really bad to barely noticeable, and my skin really c…

> Probiotics are a cheap and risk-free. Not entirely risk-free, but the side effects of a negative reaction don’t last too long at least. I felt notably worse for about a week after trying one of the mainstream probiotic brands with strange brain fog I couldn’t shake. This effect was repeatable and I could start the malaise again by resuming the probiotic. The same effect didn’t happen with another antibiotic with di…

Thank you. I should have said "low risk" instead of "risk free".

Re: Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

#44

Sample size of 1 here, but just hear me out. Probiotics are a cheap and low-risk. If you have any general inflammation type issues that don't seem to have a cause, it might be worthwhile to just try probiotics. My Dr. told me to try them for a digestive issue - and they sort of helped that. But a handful of other things unexpectedly improved. Acid reflux went from really bad to barely noticeable, and my skin really c…

> Probiotics are a cheap and risk-free.

They are not risk-free, also not in inflammation type issues. In this (RCT) trial in patients with acute pancreatitis, probiotics actually lead to death (with no deaths in the control group). [0]

[0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18279948/

Re: Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Probiotics are a cheap and risk-free. Not entirely risk-free, but the side effects of a negative reaction don’t last too long at least. I felt notably worse for about a week after trying one of the mainstream probiotic brands with strange brain fog I couldn’t shake. This effect was repeatable and I could start the malaise again by resuming the probiotic. The same effect didn’t happen with another antibiotic with di…

The brain fog could have been a consequence of the ensuing biological war you started by introducing a new strain of bacteria to your digestion for which your metabolism had yet to adapt to.

More likely that it’s the case that more bacteria in your stomach isn’t necessarily a better thing.

These negative effects have been noted in the literature, too, so I’m not alone: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6006167/

Re: Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

#47
post #33

Sample size of 1 here, but just hear me out. Probiotics are a cheap and low-risk. If you have any general inflammation type issues that don't seem to have a cause, it might be worthwhile to just try probiotics. My Dr. told me to try them for a digestive issue - and they sort of helped that. But a handful of other things unexpectedly improved. Acid reflux went from really bad to barely noticeable, and my skin really c…

Was that OTC probiotics? Most of them seem to need refrigeration, and I'm surprised they are not sold as such (just placed on non-refrigerated shelves in stores or sent by mail in a normal box without cooling).

Yes it's OTC. My box just says to store in a "cool dry place away from sunlight". It doesn't specify a temperature range.

Re: Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

#48

Sample size of 1 here, but just hear me out. Probiotics are a cheap and low-risk. If you have any general inflammation type issues that don't seem to have a cause, it might be worthwhile to just try probiotics. My Dr. told me to try them for a digestive issue - and they sort of helped that. But a handful of other things unexpectedly improved. Acid reflux went from really bad to barely noticeable, and my skin really c…

> Probiotics are a cheap and risk-free. Not entirely risk-free, but the side effects of a negative reaction don’t last too long at least. I felt notably worse for about a week after trying one of the mainstream probiotic brands with strange brain fog I couldn’t shake. This effect was repeatable and I could start the malaise again by resuming the probiotic. The same effect didn’t happen with another antibiotic with di…

It's hard to believe something can be as powerful as to relieve depression, while at the same time not having any downside or risk.

Re: Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

#49
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seratonin is produced in multiple places in the body (not just the brain, and apparently, most of the seratonin in your body is not produced in the brain), but doesn't appear to cross the blood-brain barrier. I'm not a doctor but I think what that means is "seratonin in your gut probably doesn't make it's way to the brain; but, the rest of the body is already awash in seratonin, so additional production in the gut ca…

How does serotonin in a pill reach the brain then? :) Is there some special delivery mechanism behind it?

[deleted]

Re: Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

#50

I read this take somewhere that we are basically a vessel for our microbiome / gut Flora. Our moods, what food we crave, how social we are might all be impacted by them, in which case they do have some sort of control over not just how we feel, but how we behave. For instance if you eat a lot of sugar, you will crave more sugar, and the argument would be that it's the bacteria that have developed in your gut that are…

The literature couldn't be more clear in support of what you wrote. It's actually a fairly well researched topic in nutritional science.

https://nutritionfacts.org/video/microbiome-we-are-what-they...

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