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Fresh – Next-gen web framework

fresh.deno.dev

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Re: Fresh – Next-gen web framework

#41

Post by damowangcy »

lmiller1990 wrote: post #9

I don't fully understand the difference between this (and something like Remix, which seems similar) and other frameworks like Next.js (React) and Nuxt.js (Vue). Can someone explain a bit about the differences, and pros/cons to each?

The end result might be same but all of these frameworks/library/tools have some tricks up their sleeves that makes things easier for developers to implement certain functionality.

The major difference with Fresh is that it runs everything just-in-time when it is needed, hence doesn't require building no shipping anything by default to the client(but you can still ship some JS for client side interactivity).

The key here is no building (packing, bundling, transpiling). This don't just save time but actually removes the complexity as what you see is what you get. The only things that ships to users visiting your site is around 0-3kb (plus client side JS you decided to ship), not prebundled transpiled polyfilled prebuild 10mb JavaScript.

Since it is Server Side Rendering, the performance is based on design decision.

Re: Fresh – Next-gen web framework

#42

Post by 0des »

swatcoder wrote: post #27
quickthrower2 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Early PHP and Ruby frameworks don't provide anything to help you write client side interactive code, so you are on your own there, and you have to bring your own tools to do this.

Yeah, I remember how I used to have my users manually dll inject a plugin into Internet Explorer so I could make the buttons go brrr. I always wished there was something convenient, like an html tag that made it easier to add interactivity, but I never found it. I can’t believe we got anything done back in those days.

Take me down with the ship too, this cracked me up.

Re: Fresh – Next-gen web framework

#43

Post by francis-li »

Ryan Dahl talks a bit about it in this talk at Remix Conf 2022: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_nxvVTNY9s&t=10781s

He describes it as a post-Unix web framework (i.e. built on serverless primitives like cloudflare workers/deno deploy) with the goal of <10s deployment (which he says requires JIT compilation on first-request)

Re: Fresh – Next-gen web framework

#44

Post by steve_adams_86 »

solardev wrote: post #12

Ooh, some competition for Next.js? Vercel is doing a really good job with Next, but it's good to see some competition. Of course, that means there's now 65,535 + 1 more way of serving a web page using Javascript (sigh). Rehydration is a really big deal. Sounds dorky but it dramatically speeds up load times and such by serving flat HTML and injecting JS afterward, like the old days, except you can write code like it's…

Have you seen Remix yet? It’s pretty compelling in terms of competition for Next.JS.

It makes different trade offs and isn’t strictly better by every metric, but overall I’m very happy with it for the two use cases I’ve tried it with. It’s a very low overhead framework once the simple conventions click.

I’d still like to check this out, then redwood and a couple others too. I’m not huge on these frameworks in general, but they tend to have some excellent ideas and smart people behind them, so plenty to learn by experimenting with them.

Re: Fresh – Next-gen web framework

#45

Post by [deleted] »

jchw wrote: post #37
0des wrote: post #28

Quoted post unavailable.

Even if you wanna be cynical, this is a really boring and overplayed take in my opinion. Most frameworks are indeed kind of bloated for running useless hello world demos. Most C compilers give you some kilobytes of code that isn’t necessary for hello world either, even worse for other respected and modern languages like Rust and Go. It can be forgiven if you consider that most of these things are not tuned for optima…

[deleted]

Re: Fresh – Next-gen web framework

#46

Post by smoochy »

munchenphile wrote: post #7
edmcnulty101 wrote: post #2

What is hydrating the client?

> Island based client hydration for maximum interactivity. This honestly reads like satire. It sounds like something on the sarcastic VanillaJS homepage. This gibberish being the second bullet point in a list of core features is a huge turn off. I know it’s tongue in cheek, but still

People downvoted you, but I completely agree. It looks like this is NOT satire, but I hope you turn out to be right. Maybe someone has some sense of humor and enough time on their hands left to pull such stunt.

Re: Fresh – Next-gen web framework

#47

Post by steve_taylor »

wonderbore wrote: post #22
jollybean wrote: post #19

"Island based client hydration" Is this ling that I'm missing? Or a lark?

Replace island with widget. It means each part can render/rehydrate independently, I suppose

You can do this with multiple React roots on the page. It’s been done by many websites for years.

Re: Fresh – Next-gen web framework

#49

Post by jonobird1 »

jchw wrote: post #37
0des wrote: post #28

Quoted post unavailable.

Even if you wanna be cynical, this is a really boring and overplayed take in my opinion. Most frameworks are indeed kind of bloated for running useless hello world demos. Most C compilers give you some kilobytes of code that isn’t necessary for hello world either, even worse for other respected and modern languages like Rust and Go. It can be forgiven if you consider that most of these things are not tuned for optima…

This comment is the overplayed take that because a lot are heavy frameworks, that this should be acceptable. As soon as something is classified as a framework, it seems ok to be >200kb.

If you take Tailwind CSS for example, when correctly using their CLI tool, it only includes the size of the css classes actually used, keeping it to a minimum, when compared to people just doing a standard import of the entire library. I like this mentality because it's offering the ability to be very lightweight, or as large as the 'framework' it offers. NextJS offers this as part of their build process, but not sure how big their assets are with it for a simple usecase.

Re: Fresh – Next-gen web framework

#50

Post by 0des »

smoochy wrote: post #46
munchenphile wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Island based client hydration for maximum interactivity. This honestly reads like satire. It sounds like something on the sarcastic VanillaJS homepage. This gibberish being the second bullet point in a list of core features is a huge turn off. I know it’s tongue in cheek, but still

People downvoted you, but I completely agree. It looks like this is NOT satire, but I hope you turn out to be right. Maybe someone has some sense of humor and enough time on their hands left to pull such stunt.

My bet is on someone forget to take it out of the template when the rest of the copy was added, and it will be gone in a few days with a realistic list item there.

I think it's mostly like a tongue in cheek acknowledgement of how everyone in big techs is fighting so hard for a promotion that they aggressively brand the heck out of every library, exploit, and "new tech" they scheme up, even if the thing they're mentioning is using weird language for a concept that isn't new.

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