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Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

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Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#41

Post by shadowgovt »

MBCook wrote: post #29
martin_bech wrote: post #3

Probably because all apps are now required to target the latest api, which means most permissions are done by user prompts, and not just by downloading the app.

The iPhone has worked like that (to various degrees) for a long time. But Apple still added their privacy label things to tell me if an app is going to try to track my location. I don’t want to download a clipboard helper of some kind and find out it’s going to ask for my GPS coordinates. I want to know ahead of time.

I believe Google is addressing that concern via the new Data Safety block.

This is a better approach for the goal, because if there's one thing they learned from years of offering the permissions list, it's that users can't convert the concept of "app permissions" into a good mental model of "What data the app can collect on me." They just aren't on average savvy enough. So the Data Safety info answers the question users actually care about without added complexity of pretending the average user is a developer who groks what permissions mean.

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#42

Post by mdp2021 »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #34
devit wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just don't use proprietary applications (or don't expect them to serve you).

Isn't that equivalent to telling us not to install apps at all?

I guess the poster meant, "either use Open Source or code them yourself".

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#43

Post by ajross »

hbn wrote: post #11
devit wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just don't use proprietary applications (or don't expect them to serve you).

I switched to an iPhone and I'm using proprietary applications, but ones that don't randomly change their UI on a regular basis whenever some nameless product manager decides they want to use me to gather some new engagement metrics by rearranging UIs on my phone

> ones that don't randomly change their UI on a regular basis

I'm genuinely curious what apps you're talking about here. Everyone does this nonsense. Everything changes all the time. Everything. I don't like it either, but to state that it somehow doesn't happen in the Apple ecosystem seems like a pretty big whopper.

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#44

Post by dtgriscom »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #22
hbn wrote: post #4

> They had implemented that already a while ago, then reverted the behaviour, and now implemented it once again. This is, among many other reasons, why I finally dropped Android after the better part of a decade. The constant A/B/C/D/E testing makes every single thing they put out feel like it's a constant state of beta testing. It's to the point where you don't even know what to expect when you do something as funda…

It's funny how smart yet dumb A/B testing is. On one hand you can intelligently gauge the effect of changes, on the other hand you can push stupid shit since you have that power. How about intelligently designing applications that you yourself want to use? Too hard.

There are facts about human behavior which can only be learned by actually testing them. People are complex in ways that you, whilst sitting at your keyboard, cannot figure out.

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#45

Post by bjelkeman-again »

hbn wrote: post #37
jchw wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s funny. I mean I use iOS and sure the UI is nice… but if you are thinking there’s not needless silly UI changes… how many major versions have you been through? Some of the bad phone UX ideas started on iPhone. Like removing the physical button at the bottom in favor of annoying gestures and no touch ID. And iOS 7 removed all of the borders everywhere, it’s arguably more radical than Google Material, a UI design…

They've definitely changed the overall look, but a good amount of their apps are pretty much identical in how you use them from the original iPhone in 2007. Notes, Messages, Contacts, etc are all relatively unchanged, except for additional features. The biggest overhaul was probably the recent change to Safari where they brought the address bar to the bottom, which was a consideration based on how big phones have got…

At least with Safari address bar, I found a setting to move it back to the top.

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#46

Post by gifnamething »

hbn wrote: post #4

> They had implemented that already a while ago, then reverted the behaviour, and now implemented it once again. This is, among many other reasons, why I finally dropped Android after the better part of a decade. The constant A/B/C/D/E testing makes every single thing they put out feel like it's a constant state of beta testing. It's to the point where you don't even know what to expect when you do something as funda…

The lack of valuing their customers is what made me finally give up on Android. Android's biggest problem is the same as it was 5 years ago - the support doesn't last for long enough - and all they've done about it in that time is some half-hearted upstreaming of <1% of their kernel patches (project icebreaker) as yet-another skunkworks alternative to an existing project. The attitude seems to be that they assume Android will always have its market share and the users are captive. So just chug along in mediocrity and let the e-waste pile up.

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#47

Post by mdp2021 »

roughly wrote: post #20
hbn wrote: post #4

> They had implemented that already a while ago, then reverted the behaviour, and now implemented it once again. This is, among many other reasons, why I finally dropped Android after the better part of a decade. The constant A/B/C/D/E testing makes every single thing they put out feel like it's a constant state of beta testing. It's to the point where you don't even know what to expect when you do something as funda…

I heard a phrase a while back: “the subtle gaslighting of A/B testing” - that feeling that you’re pretty sure that button used to be over there, or the app used to have that function, but not entirely sure, because one day it’s just Different, no release or upgrade or reinstall, just - it’s not the same anymore - or, is it?

> the subtle gaslighting of A/B testing

It surely would be so... What could trigger that in an application? Some of us have never seen any such behaviour (fortunately for anybody responsible and huntable). Maybe said applications are web-based, mostly front-end?

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#48

Post by ephimetheus »

roughly wrote: post #20
hbn wrote: post #4

> They had implemented that already a while ago, then reverted the behaviour, and now implemented it once again. This is, among many other reasons, why I finally dropped Android after the better part of a decade. The constant A/B/C/D/E testing makes every single thing they put out feel like it's a constant state of beta testing. It's to the point where you don't even know what to expect when you do something as funda…

I heard a phrase a while back: “the subtle gaslighting of A/B testing” - that feeling that you’re pretty sure that button used to be over there, or the app used to have that function, but not entirely sure, because one day it’s just Different, no release or upgrade or reinstall, just - it’s not the same anymore - or, is it?

This is super frustrating. I’ve described it like feeling like you have Alzheimer’s as everything changes all the time.

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#49

Post by ephimetheus »

mdp2021 wrote: post #47
roughly wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I heard a phrase a while back: “the subtle gaslighting of A/B testing” - that feeling that you’re pretty sure that button used to be over there, or the app used to have that function, but not entirely sure, because one day it’s just Different, no release or upgrade or reinstall, just - it’s not the same anymore - or, is it?

> the subtle gaslighting of A/B testing It surely would be so... What could trigger that in an application? Some of us have never seen any such behaviour (fortunately for anybody responsible and huntable). Maybe said applications are web-based, mostly front-end?

The native Revolut app (at least on iOS) had been doing this excessively for a while. I think they toned it down now.

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#50

Post by mdp2021 »

codethief wrote: post #32
dotancohen wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are standard permissions in this context?

Network access, for example

Since when network access is standard? Access to filesystem is not, use of hardware components but for display and speaker is not, internet access is not... Maybe you are referring to the exploitation of "intents" to exchange with networking enabled applications?
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