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Write HTML Right

lofi.limo

41–50 of 212 posts

Re: Write HTML Right

#41
post #13

This is how SingleFile writes HTML by default :). However, it is also the most duplicated issue in the tracker.

Example "issue" (feature) from the tracker: https://github.com/gildas-lormeau/SingleFile/issues/967

(Also: a huge thank you for creating SingleFile. One of my favourite extensions of all time.)

Re: Write HTML Right

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

…for non-tabular data such as “your pretty design elements that frame and organize the text because it is 1995 and CSS doesn’t exist yet and this is the only tool at your disposal for aligning stuff across the page”. Or because it is 2000 and putting stuff where you want it is a hell of CSS2 floats and box models and eventually you just say “fuck it” and assign table-like behavior to a bunch of divs because Tables Fo…

It’s funny you bring this up because while I have joined the Tables For Layout Are Considered Harmful club, I never really have heard a completely convincing argument on why tables have this bad rap. I think it’s mostly because, semantically, tables don’t make sense for layout, but back in the days before frameworks such as Foundation and Bootstrap (and more recently native CSS3 mechanisms), tables with invisible bor…

you can still use table layout, just not tables for layout, via `display: table` and it's many cousins (table-row, table-cell, etc.). it's a bit cumbersome, so not something to use everywhere like the old days of tables plus spacer.gif's.

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/display#int...

Re: Write HTML Right

#44
I like the aesthetic though I'm not sure how sustainable it is beyond basic content documents. On a side note though, I clicked around and big props to Aaron on the lofi.limo project, this is very cool.

Re: Write HTML Right

#45
post #23
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like this style just makes it harder to read and understand the HTML. But hey, if it works for you, great.

This is the output of an app/templating system, i.e. not a single HTML page. Have you ever read the HTML of any dynamically generated page? It's unreadable.

> This is the output of an app/templating system, i.e. not a single HTML page.

I don't think that's correct. The article is literally talking about how to write HTML, and explaining the benefits of writing it in this style.

Re: Write HTML Right

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s funny you bring this up because while I have joined the Tables For Layout Are Considered Harmful club, I never really have heard a completely convincing argument on why tables have this bad rap. I think it’s mostly because, semantically, tables don’t make sense for layout, but back in the days before frameworks such as Foundation and Bootstrap (and more recently native CSS3 mechanisms), tables with invisible bor…

...and absolutely unreadable for anyone using a screen reader.

This was never true, I believe, and only a theoretical issue invented by the semantic-HTML obsessed.

From [1]: “It is sometimes suggested, even by some accessibility advocates, that layout tables are bad for accessibility. In reality, layout tables do not pose inherent accessibility issues.”

[1] https://webaim.org/techniques/tables/

Re: Write HTML Right

#48
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s funny you bring this up because while I have joined the Tables For Layout Are Considered Harmful club, I never really have heard a completely convincing argument on why tables have this bad rap. I think it’s mostly because, semantically, tables don’t make sense for layout, but back in the days before frameworks such as Foundation and Bootstrap (and more recently native CSS3 mechanisms), tables with invisible bor…

The "Tables are Harmful" club largely came from the crew who thinks HTML carries lots of semantics and that if you don't use the Blessed Tags that carry those semantics you're doing Bad Design. The rational evidence in favor of this claim has always been weak. The "div" tag basically finished it off. The people who use HTML "semantically" have always been dwarfed by the people just making it look good on the screen,…

> honorable mention to screen readers

Too limited, and deserving of much more than an honorable mention.

Accessibility should be a fundamental consideration of any reasonably sized app, using s to markup tables is part of that.

Assistive devices are not limited to screen readers, and it's just good practice to use tables for tables.

CSS Grid has landed in all major browsers, if you want a grid layout, use grids for layout.

Re: Write HTML Right

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

…for non-tabular data such as “your pretty design elements that frame and organize the text because it is 1995 and CSS doesn’t exist yet and this is the only tool at your disposal for aligning stuff across the page”. Or because it is 2000 and putting stuff where you want it is a hell of CSS2 floats and box models and eventually you just say “fuck it” and assign table-like behavior to a bunch of divs because Tables Fo…

It’s funny you bring this up because while I have joined the Tables For Layout Are Considered Harmful club, I never really have heard a completely convincing argument on why tables have this bad rap. I think it’s mostly because, semantically, tables don’t make sense for layout, but back in the days before frameworks such as Foundation and Bootstrap (and more recently native CSS3 mechanisms), tables with invisible bor…

The semantics being wrong is convincing enough to me. That’s fundamental to accessibility. But if that doesn’t convince you: they’re not even good at layout. It’s much harder to make a page even minimally responsive with a table than with more semantically appropriate markup; you’d effectively have to revert all of the table styling, at which point why bother?

Re: Write HTML Right

#50
post #42

> gator What do they mean here?

Less-than or greater-than signs (code points 0x3C and 0x3E in ASCII). A friend put me on to calling them that because they (sort of?) look like alligators with their mouths open.
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